• This website uses cookies. More information.
  • The This Is Anfield Forums community is moving to a new home. Click here for more information on the transition.

Who would you buy?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
Not for me. I’d sooner have the player for another year than pocket £30m, get bent over on a replacement, and lose a vital cog on the eve of the season.

I think it’s understated how important Gini is to us. He started 35 games last season, and came on in another two.

And I’m not sure a new contract really works either. The club would be committing about £40m on a player who’s influence and effectiveness is only going to wane from here.
Replacement is probably the wrong word for us to use. I think Klopp and Pep have identified a way of evolving our midfield (talk about having to find new ways as teams are starting to focus on our FBs) without losing too much. As such a target like Thiago makes sense as the initial evolutionary step. That's regardless of Wijnaldum staying or going. In that context the evolution is looking likely to begin this summer and nobody is bending us over on those moves if anything we are probably shafting Bayern on that deal. Klopp and the team will handle Wijnaldum leaving even if nobody comes in and no changes happen with the way our midfield operates. As we are both likely to bring a high calibre midfielder in and tweak the midfield in a positive way that best utilises that new player I think we could actually improve even if we do lose an important player like Gini.
 

Prolix

Long Time Nemesis™
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
3,297
We were a different outfit when we lost Can. We could have probably got £15-20m but he was contributing and playing in flexible ways. Getting a replacement proven to be able to contribute probably wouldn't have been an easy job, especially when we weren't as much of a draw. Our progress was balanced on a knife edge and we couldn't handle the loss of effective players in that system at that stage. This team, as is, can still succeed without Gini. With the right replacement it could even do better. Yes the ideal is that he signs and stays long term but the benefits of selling him this summer outweigh the benefits of keeping him for his final year and losing him for nothing next summer in my opinion.
This is a revisionist character assassination on Gini and I will not stand for it. :LOL:

"Contributing and playing in flexible ways" is exactly why you keep Gini even if he doesn't renew his contract.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
This is a revisionist character assassination on Gini and I will not stand for it. :LOL:

"Contributing and playing in flexible ways" is exactly why you keep Gini even if he doesn't renew his contract.
Didn't say it wasn't but we were a more finely balanced side between success and failure when Can was here. We were relying more on his flexibility than Gini's higher quality, higher flexibility.
 

lfc.8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
2,623
Sixth highest revenues in the world there or thereabouts. Yet constantly outspent by so many clubs. We need another centre back, more quality in the midfield and more quality in the forwards.

Firmino is good but doesn't score enough and behind the front three the drop in quality is considerable. Way too reliant on them and there's little space for rotation, possible injury or when perhaps one is off form. Really need another top forward to be brought in. Sailing way too close to the wind.

Midfield today lacked any real creativity and didn't assert themselves on the game. It's definitely an area where the team can improve. Don't believe it's appropriate either to go into a season with only three centre backs with one at least quite injury prone. '

Still a number of weeks before the window closes. Thiago remains a possibility. But we need a few additions which will help chances to successfully compete on all fronts.
 

Flobs

FADA
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
10,491
We need a quality back up to the front 3 and have done for some time, Origi has scored some vital goals, and that will never be forgotten but he will never be picked in front of any of them, however they perform.
From today's performance we need a quality front 3. o_O :cry:
 

kiwiredman

This is my serious face
Joined
Sep 16, 2016
Messages
598
I think there'll be a CB and a young attacker deal too. Maybe Telles or something similar to that. If Karius, Lovren, Clyne, Larouchi, Ejaria, Ojo, Awoniyi, Woodburn, Lallana, Wilson, Grujic, Shaqiri and Origi are all leaving, mostly sold, I see us having enough for Thiago, a young forward ready to break out into senior football and a CB.
If we are selling all of the players of these players in a tricky market where clubs are expecting to pay significantly less for players in general, I would expect us to be buying more than just a CB and attacker. If we sell and get less for our players than we would have pre-Covid, won't the club want to buy in a similar market if possible? There could be some risk associated with waiting and having to buy in a higher market, as much as it will be balanced with ensuring we get the right player.
 

lightdrizzle

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
2,821
If we are selling all of the players of these players in a tricky market where clubs are expecting to pay significantly less for players in general, I would expect us to be buying more than just a CB and attacker. If we sell and get less for our players than we would have pre-Covid, won't the club want to buy in a similar market if possible? There could be some risk associated with waiting and having to buy in a higher market, as much as it will be balanced with ensuring we get the right player.
True, but you have to understand that the players we sell we are happy to sell, basically surplus to requirements, but the players we are looking to buy, the clubs are not happy to sell so you have to pay a premium to get them.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
If we are selling all of the players of these players in a tricky market where clubs are expecting to pay significantly less for players in general, I would expect us to be buying more than just a CB and attacker. If we sell and get less for our players than we would have pre-Covid, won't the club want to buy in a similar market if possible? There could be some risk associated with waiting and having to buy in a higher market, as much as it will be balanced with ensuring we get the right player.
We still have very few actual needs though. We could end up selling quite a lot but still only need Thiago, a CB and a forward.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,404
Sixth highest revenues in the world there or thereabouts. Yet constantly outspent by so many clubs. We need another centre back, more quality in the midfield and more quality in the forwards.

Firmino is good but doesn't score enough and behind the front three the drop in quality is considerable. Way too reliant on them and there's little space for rotation, possible injury or when perhaps one is off form. Really need another top forward to be brought in. Sailing way too close to the wind.

Midfield today lacked any real creativity and didn't assert themselves on the game. It's definitely an area where the team can improve. Don't believe it's appropriate either to go into a season with only three centre backs with one at least quite injury prone. '

Still a number of weeks before the window closes. Thiago remains a possibility. But we need a few additions which will help chances to successfully compete on all fronts.
This team has broken 95 pointstwo seasons running, won a premier league title and a European Cup, and it’s still in its prime. Just saying.
 

jaffod

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
3,291
Teams who stand still get caught and by-passed. This team has been magnificent for the past 2 seasons but there were/are areas where there was no strength in depth, mainly at full-back and in attack. We have relied on a core group of 12-13 outfield players who have been supplemented by 6 or 7 passengers who have been both constantly injured and ineffective when called upon. It's not sustainable in the long term and I believe we'll see that over the next 12 months if we don't strengthen in certain areas.
So far we have lost 2 senior, experienced players this window and have brought in one relatively unknown left-back. Milner is 35 in January and will be bit-part this season. AOC is struggling badly for fitness and an identifiable role in the team. Shaqiri is neither use nor ornament right now. Divock just looks happy to still be here.
If I sound worried it's because I am. If JK is gambling on Williams, Brewster and Jones stepping up and Fabinho filling in as 4th choice CB then we'll be flying by the seat of our pants this season.
It's a risk not worth taking. If it's down to money then something is seriously amiss. This club has raked it in over the last few seasons and could raise cash by offloading the likes of Grujic, Wilson, Larouci, Woodburn, Shaqiri etc and then invest in another CB, creative midfielder and genuine competition for the front 3.
On our day we can beat anybody as has been proved but asking the same group of players to do it all again is a big ask, we've looked stale, vulnerable defensively and short of ideas since the restart. We just cannot afford to stand still.
 

CymruRed

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
1,731
Teams who stand still get caught and by-passed. This team has been magnificent for the past 2 seasons but there were/are areas where there was no strength in depth, mainly at full-back and in attack. We have relied on a core group of 12-13 outfield players who have been supplemented by 6 or 7 passengers who have been both constantly injured and ineffective when called upon. It's not sustainable in the long term and I believe we'll see that over the next 12 months if we don't strengthen in certain areas.

I get where you're coming from with all these concerns but if this coronavirus hadn't hit,i'd imagine our plans would be slightly different,i'd also say because of where we are at now,those plans have probably been pushed back 12 months,with some major adjustments to our team taking place next summer now.


So far we have lost 2 senior, experienced players this window and have brought in one relatively unknown left-back. Milner is 35 in January and will be bit-part this season. AOC is struggling badly for fitness and an identifiable role in the team. Shaqiri is neither use nor ornament right now. Divock just looks happy to still be here.
If I sound worried it's because I am. If JK is gambling on Williams, Brewster and Jones stepping up and Fabinho filling in as 4th choice CB then we'll be flying by the seat of our pants this season.
We've kinda fixed a long standing LB back up issue with Tsimikas,Milner was always going to be a bit-part squad player which most didn't want to see leave for Leeds this summer,he's still a solid back up but probably in his last year on the pitch for us.

Divock,AOC and Shaqiri look like they will be having a similar season to last year by the looks of it.If you swap those 3 for Brewster,Williams and Jones,they can't do any worse tbh,we have to blood these kids at some point,if Klopp and the coaching team think they are good enough in training then who are we to go against them.

It's a risk not worth taking. If it's down to money then something is seriously amiss. This club has raked it in over the last few seasons and could raise cash by offloading the likes of Grujic, Wilson, Larouci, Woodburn, Shaqiri etc and then invest in another CB, creative midfielder and genuine competition for the front 3.
On our day we can beat anybody as has been proved but asking the same group of players to do it all again is a big ask, we've looked stale, vulnerable defensively and short of ideas since the restart. We just cannot afford to stand still.
We probably are looking to sell Grujic, Wilson,Woodburn and Shaqiri right now for the right prices to get funds for our transfer business but it has been pretty pointless over the past few years 2nd guessing who we'll buy,as we just never know what'll happen untill they announce it.I will say though,that selling those players in this window alone,with low-ish prices being quoted won't get us a CB,creative Midfielder and a gunuine front 3 type of player,unless we added more money to the pot,i wouldn't be suprised if we got Thiago and a CB though.

I think next year the clubs finances will be a lot clearer after this coronavirus BS,they probably have their eye on players they think they can get but don't have the funds to buy them atm,so rather than rush into the market now and buy for the sake of it,just like what they did with VVD,if we can't buy him now,we won't waste cash on 2nd or 3rd choice players but we'll wait till next season and buy our number 1 options.

In the meantime,we'll just have to make do with almost the same squad that finished 18 clear of City and 33 ahead of United and Chelsea.
 

rab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
3,573
Teams who stand still get caught and by-passed. We just cannot afford to stand still.
And teams that spend hundreds of millions don't always end up improving. I definitely agree that we could do with a player or two more but I'd encourage you to take a look through all the Premier League clubs business last summer. I reckon there's probably less than 20 undeniable successes that proved to be decent value.

Haller (£35m), Perez (£30m), Tielemans (£40m), Maguire (£80m), wan Bissaka (£50m) Rodri (£63m) Iwobi (£35m), Joelinton (£40m), Pepe (£72m), Ndombele (£55m), Fornals (£25m), Cancelo (£60m). £580m spent on this dross and all these teams went backwards compared to us who bought two kids and a backup keeper.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
And teams that spend hundreds of millions don't always end up improving. I definitely agree that we could do with a player or two more but I'd encourage you to take a look through all the Premier League clubs business last summer. I reckon there's probably less than 20 undeniable successes that proved to be decent value.

Haller (£35m), Perez (£30m), Tielemans (£40m), Maguire (£80m), wan Bissaka (£50m) Rodri (£63m) Iwobi (£35m), Joelinton (£40m), Pepe (£72m), Ndombele (£55m), Fornals (£25m), Cancelo (£60m). £580m spent on this dross and all these teams went backwards compared to us who bought two kids and a backup keeper.
We've a great recruitment team. It's always confused me the logic used to say "we shouldn't buy players with our amazingly successful recruitment team because it's not a guarantee of bringing in successful signings! As proof look at the business these other clubs with ridiculously poor recruitment teams have Done!"! It's not just you saying it it's a commonly rolled out thing. Just really confused me. When LFC buy a player it's an incredibly well thought out move to bring in skills and traits needing to be added to the side that sometimes aren't even immediately apparent and it's worked good to great like 95% of the time.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,404
We've a great recruitment team. It's always confused me the logic used to say "we shouldn't buy players with our amazingly successful recruitment team because it's not a guarantee of bringing in successful signings! As proof look at the business these other clubs with ridiculously poor recruitment teams have Done!"! It's not just you saying it it's a commonly rolled out thing. Just really confused me. When LFC buy a player it's an incredibly well thought out move to bring in skills and traits needing to be added to the side that sometimes aren't even immediately apparent and it's worked good to great like 95% of the time.
But the recruitment team will be involved in an discussion not to get in a player. You can’t have it both ways. You laud the recruitment team and then say we should doing more recruitment.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
But the recruitment team will be involved in an discussion not to get in a player. You can’t have it both ways. You laud the recruitment team and then say we should doing more recruitment.
Not sure the guys involved in the analysis of what the team need and identification of targets are also the same people identifying what financial limits and caution is needed to be taken.
 

rab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
3,573
We've a great recruitment team. It's always confused me the logic used to say "we shouldn't buy players with our amazingly successful recruitment team because it's not a guarantee of bringing in successful signings! As proof look at the business these other clubs with ridiculously poor recruitment teams have Done!"! It's not just you saying it it's a commonly rolled out thing. Just really confused me. When LFC buy a player it's an incredibly well thought out move to bring in skills and traits needing to be added to the side that sometimes aren't even immediately apparent and it's worked good to great like 95% of the time.
And if they've decided not to buy anyone as the right player isn't available for the right fee, like van Dijk for example, then we should trust that decision too, right?

I remember saying it was negligent not to buy a left back the season Milner played there and he was a revelation. Ultimately they knew it wasn't a long term solution but they were vindicated for waiting.

The recruitment and data teams job isn't to just buy players, it's to find the right player for the right fee. They've proven there's value in waiting for the player you want, from walking away from deals if we aren't comfortable with them and in looking at unfashionable players from unfashionable clubs and leagues. If you're that convinced of their ability and they want to wait on Thiago, shouldn't you be on board with that idea?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
And if they've decided not to buy anyone as the right player isn't available for the right fee, like van Dijk for example, then we should trust that decision too, right?

I remember saying it was negligent not to buy a left back the season Milner played there and he was a revelation. Ultimately they knew it wasn't a long term solution but they were vindicated for waiting.

The recruitment and data teams job isn't to just buy players, it's to find the right player for the right fee. They've proven there's value in waiting for the player you want, from walking away from deals if we aren't comfortable with them and in looking at unfashionable players from unfashionable clubs and leagues. If you're that convinced of their ability and they want to wait on Thiago, shouldn't you be on board with that idea?
But you admit yourself their strength in identifying talent required and their desire to find a way to get Thiago into the side. Financial limitations getting in the way of that need to be overcome for the benefit of the playing side (which is what brings in the finances after all).
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,404
But you admit yourself their strength in identifying talent required and their desire to find a way to get Thiago into the side. Financial limitations getting in the way of that need to be overcome for the benefit of the playing side (which is what brings in the finances after all).
I think you’re bring a big unfair mate. You can’t say our recruitment is second to none, and then kick off if we decide not to recruit.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
I think you’re bring a big unfair mate. You can’t say our recruitment is second to none, and then kick off if we decide not to recruit.
What parts of the recruitment team are second to none? The financial backing behind the recruitment team aren't. The joined up thinking between the coaching staff and recruitment staff is world class. The identification of qualities and skills that will help us regardless of the reputation of the player is world class. Spotting diamonds in the rough is world class. But this club operates under restraints. Those restraints are nothing to do with choices made by the recruitment team they are constraints that are forced on them that they have to succeed in spite of not voluntarily operating within.
 

rab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
3,573
But you admit yourself their strength in identifying talent required and their desire to find a way to get Thiago into the side. Financial limitations getting in the way of that need to be overcome for the benefit of the playing side (which is what brings in the finances after all).
You aren't going to have the data team operating in isolation of the business side of things though. That's exactly Edwards role, to bring the data and recruitment together.

It's one collective unit that Klopp is part of. This is why we've been lauded. We use data to help make decisions whilst operating within our financial constraints. It's not for the financial folk to overcome those constraints to pay a fee we aren't happy with because the data folk say a bloke would be a good fit. If it worked like that, Jamal Lewis would be a Liverpool player.
 

rab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
3,573
What parts of the recruitment team are second to none? The financial backing behind the recruitment team aren't. The joined up thinking between the coaching staff and recruitment staff is world class. The identification of qualities and skills that will help us regardless of the reputation of the player is world class. Spotting diamonds in the rough is world class. But this club operates under restraints. Those restraints are nothing to do with choices made by the recruitment team they are constraints that are forced on them that they have to succeed in spite of not voluntarily operating within.
The recruitment team is world class because of the financial constraints. We can't compete purely on money so we've worked to find a competitive advantage in another way.

Those constraints aren't forced on them, they are the reason those people have a job and they'd be fully aware of that coming in.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,404
Apparently our recruitment team are only good because we have very little money to spend or something. I've given up. It makes no sense to me and I'm too tired for it.
I don’t know about that, but surely the recruitment is the combined efforts of Klopp and his coaches, the analysis and data departments and the financial side. That they work together so well and clearly trust each other is the source of strength.

You are trying to separate them. To put the analysts at odds with the finance. I don’t think that’s fair, and I think decisions are more collective and more collegiate that that.
 

vjcpatriot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
978
We honestly don't need a lot. The Starting XI as as good as any in Europe right now.

We've added a quality backup LB. We look like we'll be adding Thiago to the Midfield.

Right now our most pressing concern is a replacement at CB who can partner with Van Dijk for the inevitable days that Matip or Gomez are out with injuries.

At forward, I believe that Minamino will take a step up and settle in this season. Most likely we sell Origi, Wilson, Shaqiri if we get reasonable offers. If that happens then we can go for one more backup forward with potential. Don't know who that is yet but I trust in Klopp and Edwards to make the right call if an opportunity comes up to improve the side.
 

saymyname

New Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Messages
12
Pull the stingy fingers out the pockets and buy Thiago, also should of backed Klopp on his Werner choice, too late for that.
We are so lucky to have Jurgen here, he can get the best out of everyone unless he doesn't like them like Shaq (poor guy btw). We're all so happy with our recent success, so many people overlook the obvious constraints Klopp has had to work under and it's about bloody time he got given the respect by the owners to get who he wants, he is very gracious but one day the man may just go ah sod this. He is the most wanted manager in the world in his own way and I feel our owners are not backing him as they should.
I've become a bit angry about it, everyone seems to be a financial consultant now, fans etc, superfans backing the owners instead of realising Klopp deserves to have what he wants. I don't care about this fake excuse pandemic.
Give Klopp what he wants, that's it. Get some money out them stingy pocket NESV/FSG. If we don't continue to freshen and strengthen, this nice feeling of winning things will pass and we'll decline I guarantee.
People saying oh prices are lower for our players selling, well prices are lower for us buying too. Too many excuses and thinking in circles. It's pretty simple.
 

Sweeting

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,293
Pull the stingy fingers out the pockets and buy Thiago, also should of backed Klopp on his Werner choice, too late for that.
We are so lucky to have Jurgen here, he can get the best out of everyone unless he doesn't like them like Shaq (poor guy btw). We're all so happy with our recent success, so many people overlook the obvious constraints Klopp has had to work under and it's about bloody time he got given the respect by the owners to get who he wants, he is very gracious but one day the man may just go ah sod this. He is the most wanted manager in the world in his own way and I feel our owners are not backing him as they should.
I've become a bit angry about it, everyone seems to be a financial consultant now, fans etc, superfans backing the owners instead of realising Klopp deserves to have what he wants. I don't care about this fake excuse pandemic.
Give Klopp what he wants, that's it. Get some money out them stingy pocket NESV/FSG. If we don't continue to freshen and strengthen, this nice feeling of winning things will pass and we'll decline I guarantee.
People saying oh prices are lower for our players selling, well prices are lower for us buying too. Too many excuses and thinking in circles. It's pretty simple.
Hardly Nostrodamus, that happens to every team no matter how much money they throw at it.

Klopp has been well backed in the past. He's broke the club transfer record on multiple occasions. If we had oligarch owners then yes we probably would have signed Werner but we don't, FSG aren't rich enough to commission spending from their own pocket, so we have to make sensible business decisions. Werner, a backup, was not financially sensible at the extortionate wages he was asking for.

Thiago only finished his season one week ago and there are seemingly no other serious suitors. Interest from PSG was raised and faded almost immediately. From the outside it seems Liverpool, or more to the point Michael Edwards, is confident of negotiating the deal to be more favourable to us, given that in four months time he can signed for free (this is a technique Bayern and Juve are often praised for by the way, but now that we are trying it people lose their minds with impatience).

Finally, we have already signed someone. Tsimikas fills the major hole in the squad from last season.
 

Sweeting

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,293
Everyone is aware that the transfer window is open until the 5th October - right? We haven't missed out on anything if they aren't signed by matchday one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.