Who would you keep ?

shachart

"You're supposed to help people that need a bit."
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
Messages
1,886
Likes
1,505
#1
This thread coincides with the "Who Would You Buy ? " thread. Since pretty much any new buy means someone has to leave, and there is also the need to consider a place for young players coming through the academy or simply develop, in many ways the squad we have and think of using should be the basis of what we need to buy.
I will only list those who might be considered to move.

GK - Karius, Mignolete, Ward, Bogdan. There is also Kamil Grabara who is considered a great talent. Since there is a consensus regarding the need to bring a new GK, who will be the other 2 ?

Defense - Clyne, Flanagan, Conor Randall, Klavan.

Midfield - Can ( pretty much already out the door ), Gini ( yes him ), Grujic, Ejaria, Chirivella, Allan. We have Milner, Ox, Lallana, Hendo, Keita, Fabinho and rumors have it Fekir is coming as well. 7 Players fighting over 3 positions as it is.

Wingers - Wilson, Kent, Ojo and Markovic.

Forwards - Sturridge, Ings, Solanke, Woodburn, Origi and Awoniyi. I think it is clear that none of them is a suitable backup for Firmino, at least not yet.


Although Salah is a great example why it is important to keep players on your roster, and loan them out to gain experience rather than lose patience, I still in general feel that if a young player after 2-3 years out in a smaller club / weaker league hasn't shined, he will most probably never be good enough to play for the club. The same goes for players in the club that are kept on the bench but are not getting any playing time. If the manager doesn't believe in a player to give him an opportunity to play, why keep him ?

I rate Ward, Woodburn, Wilson and Grujic very much and I can see them evolving to be great players for the club. Having said that, keeping them around without giving them the opportunity to play helps no one, and I don't see a lot of minutes for them next season.
 
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
6,247
Likes
5,899
#2
GK - Grabara
CB - Klavan
Midfield - Can, would send Ejaria and Chirivella on loan I think even if numbers appear large Lallana and AOC could cause problems and Can is probably leaving which means Grujic gets to stay (I still think he's a good player I've just cooled off due to him being loaned out).
Wingers -That's a nasty list I liked Kent when I saw him and Ojo but really know too little about them and Wilson.
Forwards - Solanke, Woodburn and Awoniyi (I like his name and that is enough for a youngster for me and we need someone to make up the numbers in training).
 

Ahmed Hussain

Sad guy with no life :(
Joined
Jul 10, 2017
Messages
782
Likes
1,259
#3
Keep:
Karius as back up
Clyne
Trent
Van Dijk
Lovren
Gomez - want him to break through and become Van Dijk's partner
Matip
Klavan
Robertson
Moreno
Oxlade - Chamberlain
Wijnaldum
Henderson
Lallana
Milner
Salah
Mane
Firmino
Wilson

Sell:
Mignolet
Ward - not being used so why keep him for no reason?
Bogdan
Flanagan
Sturridge
Markovic
Ings - Sorry, but there should be an upgrade for back up striker
Origi
Chirivella - Doesn't look like he'll break through

Loan:
Woodburn
Solanke
Ejaria
Grujic
 

Ahmed Hussain

Sad guy with no life :(
Joined
Jul 10, 2017
Messages
782
Likes
1,259
#5
Well it is the definition of back up isn't it?
If there's a new keeper coming in then Karius should be the back up for that keeper and the third choice could be Gabara or someone. Ward is 25 now and if he wants to push on in his career then he should leave because clearly he won't get enough chances at Liverpool based on this season alone.
 
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
6,247
Likes
5,899
#6
If there's a new keeper coming in then Karius should be the back up for that keeper and the third choice could be Gabara or someone. Ward is 25 now and if he wants to push on in his career then he should leave because clearly he won't get enough chances at Liverpool based on this season alone.
Thats what I have been saying since Ward came back from Aberdeen.
I can not agree about Karius though as he's useless. Mignolet is better but if we get a decent goalkeeper why not keep Ward he is the perfect backup and has proved it. He makes no waves and sits where ever he is told to.
I just don't know whether I should laugh or cry over our goalkeeping situation however reading that fans are prepared to keep Karius is disturbing. Even Bogdan would be a surer bet!
 

shachart

"You're supposed to help people that need a bit."
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
Messages
1,886
Likes
1,505
#7
I would love to see some of our better talents loaned out to Rangers. Woodburn, Kent, ojo and Ejaria, playing under Gerrard...

Sounds like a win-win situation.

Might not be a bad idea to send Karius there for a couple of years, get some distance from it all.
 

Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts...
Admin
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
21,661
Likes
19,653
#8
I'd keep all of the first-teamers, in order to have that depth which we have lacked at times this season. Those of the first team who want to go are previsibly Can and Mignolet. Fabinho is already in place, and a new goalkeeper must thus come in, unless Klopp decides that Ward can genuinely compete with Karius for the nr. 1 spot.

Those who must be told to go are those who haven't featured in the first team and would benefit from a move: Bogdan, Flanagan, Markovic, Sturridge (too injury-prone unfortunately).

Question-marks about all younger loaned-out players: Origi, Kent, Oiyo, Chirivella, Allan, Wilson, Grujic, Randall. I assume that Klopp will want to have a close look at them in the pre-season, and then make a decision about their future at the club. Woodburn is another one with huge question marks over him: last season he played his fair share of games for such a young lad, but this season, he hasn't really had a sniff, has he? It will be interesting to see what happens with him. He's undoubtedly a talent.

All in all, we are in a good position. A strong squad which made it to the CL final and will basically stay together for next season, yet to be bolstered with new incoming quality players (Fabinho and Keita already signed), and with a lot of talented young players knocking at the door. Exciting.
 

Noo Noo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
2,082
Likes
1,757
#10
Can leaves,
Mignolet leaves
Sturridge leaves

Question mark over Ings

Then as above, debate what to do with the youngsters.

Grujic is the one that bugs me. He's just turned 22 which is probably on that border where he should probably be pushing for a first team spot if not already there. I suspect he may not make it or maybe he would have been kept at the club rather than loaned out.

Big Summer for Wilson who is now 21. Kent too.
 

Zinedine Biscan

Never go full Lovren
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
20,711
Likes
34,783
#11
My keep list is everyone not mentioned in the below lists:

Definitely sell/leave on a free:

Mignolet
Bogdan
Can
Flanagan
Origi
Ings
Sturridge
Markovic
Randall

Possibly sell (not really needed but may have small squad role to play):

Karius
Clyne
Moreno
Grujic
Kent

Loan:

Woodburn
Ward (only if Karius stays and new no1 purchased)

Quite undecided on Ojo, Ejaria and Chirivella. I think another loan for them is pointless, and they should either be kept around the squad or sold if Klopp decides their not needed or unlikely to make the step up required.
 

Lowton_Red

No football club is successful without hard work.
Joined
Oct 19, 2015
Messages
1,583
Likes
4,789
#12
Why nobody speaks of that Brewster fella?
Rhian Brewster is entering the final year of his scholarship deal. So far he's rejected the professional terms we've offered. The question of whether he stays or goes appears to be down to the player / his agent rather than for us to decide.
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Messages
23
Likes
32
#13
@ Zinedane Biscan
Possibly sell (not really needed but may have small squad role to play):

Karius
Clyne
Moreno
Grujic
Kent

I think Clyne is a must keep player and will have a role to play and is of good calibre as back up to TAA, and unless we bring in another left back Moreno as well, when he started last year he looked much improved.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
49,951
Likes
37,077
#14
Rhian Brewster is entering the final year of his scholarship deal. So far he's rejected the professional terms we've offered. The question of whether he stays or goes appears to be down to the player / his agent rather than for us to decide.
Well I guess he's as good as gone then.... judging by the way players rejecting our offer, they rarely makes u-turn.
 

jackh1092

Active Member
Joined
May 20, 2018
Messages
235
Likes
158
#15
Agree with @Zinedine Biscan keep/sell list. Minus Clyne+Moreno, they weren't on his actual sell list, but i hope they don;t go. Seems pointless needing to buy another LB when we have it ok now.

Clyne only coming back, why all of a sudden is there this cry to get him out the door?
 

Zinedine Biscan

Never go full Lovren
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
20,711
Likes
34,783
#16
Agree with @Zinedine Biscan keep/sell list. Minus Clyne+Moreno, they weren't on his actual sell list, but i hope they don;t go. Seems pointless needing to buy another LB when we have it ok now.

Clyne only coming back, why all of a sudden is there this cry to get him out the door?
As you said he was on my list of potential outs, and that was only because with TAA, Gomez and now Fabinho who is an excellent RB (he'd be first-choice there if we didn't need him in midfield primarily!) I wasn't sure if he was still needed. He's always been filed under solid but unspectacular, so don't feel strongly either way. It's more a case of if we need the funds or the squad place.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
18,353
Likes
30,502
#17
As you said he was on my list of potential outs, and that was only because with TAA, Gomez and now Fabinho who is an excellent RB (he'd be first-choice there if we didn't need him in midfield primarily!) I wasn't sure if he was still needed. He's always been filed under solid but unspectacular, so don't feel strongly either way. It's more a case of if we need the funds or the squad place.
If you want to sell Moreno, Clyne could cover on the left.

Personally I wouldn't be selling anyone except the obvious ones, like Mignolet, Sturridge and Origi.
 

Zinedine Biscan

Never go full Lovren
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
20,711
Likes
34,783
#18
If you want to sell Moreno, Clyne could cover on the left.

Personally I wouldn't be selling anyone except the obvious ones, like Mignolet, Sturridge and Origi.
True enough, and opens up Moreno, who was also on my list of potential sales, for a move. Given I think Clyne is the better player that seems a sound option.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
10,570
Likes
6,915
#19
Ok so decided best way to answer this is to review what we have/should have position by position see where there are holes and players not really required if those holes are filled. Can end up quite harsh this way but no matter how much a player can be a top guy if he's not needed he's not needed (looking with sad eyes at you Ings).

Keeper is very hard, I'm a firm believer that you need 3 options that don't look too ridiculous should they ever need using (remember Reina and Doni both being suspended and Jones having to play important games as an example, I'd say the depth was right then). But the stronger or weaker your first choice determines how strong you can get away with as second and third choice. Do you need reliable veterans, kids with potential or somebody good enough to start at a reasonable level? I think the harsh but true appraisal has been made that Karius doesn't have the mental strength and Mignolet is a terrible fit for our playing style and doesn't want to stay as a number 2. I think Karius will be best served by a clean slate somewhere else as it'll always hang over him should he stay. That forces us into the market for a starting keeper and it looks like we are going for a strong option. Working on the possibility that we get that strong option I think we could go for more of a development option in the other two roles and I'd have Ward and Grabara stay as 2nd and 3rd for next season.

All other players than I mention to keep should be sold (if 22 or over) or loaned out if still under contract (21 and under).

For outfield roles I really see the pitch splitting into 5 groups of 2. We should have 3 TOP TOP options for each of those 2 positions with a decent option or two backing them up (especially in attack where we make more subs) and a couple of emergency options from within the squad too.

Centre back; Van Dijk, Lovren, Matip. Then Gomez and Klavan back up. Fabinho and Gini as emergency cover.

Full back; Alexander-Arnold, Robertson, Clyne. Gomez and Fabinho as back up. Henderson and Milner as emergency cover.

Centre midfield; Fabinho, Keita, Henderson. Gini and Milner as back up. Oxlaid-Chamberlain and Alexander-Arnold as emergency cover.

Attacking midfield (no 8/10 hybrid) and centre forward (false 9/9); Oxlaid-Chamberlain, Firmino, space to be filled. Lallana and Solanke or Brewster (other one loaned out) as back up. Woodburn, Salah, Mane, Milner as emergency cover.

Wings; Salah, Mane, space to be filled. Woodburn and Wilson as back ups. Milner, Lallana and Oxlaid-Chamberlain as emergency cover.

So that leaves us bringing in 3 more after Fabinho (Fekir looks odds on as first and fills the space missing with Firmino and Ox).

Moving on we'd have; Mignolet, Karius, Bogdan, Moreno, Can, Markovic, Origi, Sturridge and Ings. If we can't bring in at least £55 million from those something has gone wrong.

Grujic and any youth players not listed would be loaned out to see if they're useful after more playing time or at least raise their price before moving them on in a future window.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
49,951
Likes
37,077
#20
If there is no need to sell, I don't think we should be discarding players. We were thread bare at the final push of the season, why go through that again next season. If they are not looking to leave, keep them. They've been training with Klopp for 3 years now, knows exactly what needs to be done in their own spot. We need quality and able backups. Keep them I say, if they didn't ask for a move.
 

RedForever2014

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
3,439
Likes
3,052
#21
By department;

Keepers: only one I'd consider keeping is Karius as a back up to a new keeper. Alternatively, we could loan him out for a year or two to see how he does and hopefully increase his value, and sign a veteran as back up to the new keeper for a couple of years.

Defenders: I'd keep all nine first team squad defenders, mainly as some are injury prone so you need the extra head, and I doubt we'll have the money to upgrade any of them after we've sorted the midfield and attack. If we sign a young up and coming centre back we could release either Matip or Klavan.

Central midfield: I want to see 4231 more next season, so I see Hendo, Gini, Keita and Fabinho as the four options for the 2. Three of them can play 6, all of them 8.

Utility player: Milner

Attacking midfield: I'd keep Lallana as cover for a 10 such as Fekir, especially with Oxlade not likely to be fully fit until Xmas.

Forwards: It's crucial that we keep the front three and sign at least one similar level forward. If we don't sign two forwards I'd consider keeping Origi as a striker back up, together with Solanke.

This gives us the 23 outfield squad - 9 defenders, 4 central midfielders, 1 utility, 3 attacking midfielders, 6 forwards.

Next summer we release Lallana, Milner, Klavan and possibly Origi and sign a couple of players plus bring back any loanees who are deemed ready.
 

Zoran

Fighting like beavers.
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
16,505
Likes
10,427
#23
One of the rare Liverpool summers where I don't think anyone is really close to leaving. If they do, it will be more up to us and we'll have the money to replace them. With Emre we already knew about it for two years now that we might lose him. You never know with someone like Salah (or better to say clubs with money and "crazy" ideas), but we should be safe this summer. Nice platform for Klopp to take this team to another level.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
18,353
Likes
30,502
#24
If there is no need to sell, I don't think we should be discarding players. We were thread bare at the final push of the season, why go through that again next season. If they are not looking to leave, keep them. They've been training with Klopp for 3 years now, knows exactly what needs to be done in their own spot. We need quality and able backups. Keep them I say, if they didn't ask for a move.
Completely agree with this, and as fans we have to get used to the idea we basically need two strong teams. I've seen some people suggesting selling Wijnaldum and Lallana. Why?

We do this thing where we have a first team, and anyone not in that team we see as ripe for binning off. Then we moan about depth.

My outs would be (because it's easier than listing the keeps)

- Mignolet and Ward. I'd hang on to Ward, but realistically we can't kill another year of his career. Both will be desperate to leave.

- No need to get rid of any of the defenders. If we move for a centre back, there might be an argument to move on either Matip or Lovren, but it's hardly a priority.

- Can is off, but I don't see why we'd move on anything else. Maybe a loan for Grujic.

- Up front Sturridge and Origi, but there is no need to push out anyone else unless Ings decides he wants to leave for regular football.

Then there is the annual cull of the under 23s.
 

Zinedine Biscan

Never go full Lovren
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
20,711
Likes
34,783
#25
Completely agree with this, and as fans we have to get used to the idea we basically need two strong teams. I've seen some people suggesting selling Wijnaldum and Lallana. Why?

We do this thing where we have a first team, and anyone not in that team we see as ripe for binning off. Then we moan about depth.

My outs would be (because it's easier than listing the keeps)

- Mignolet and Ward. I'd hang on to Ward, but realistically we can't kill another year of his career. Both will be desperate to leave.

- No need to get rid of any of the defenders. If we move for a centre back, there might be an argument to move on either Matip or Lovren, but it's hardly a priority.

- Can is off, but I don't see why we'd move on anything else. Maybe a loan for Grujic.

- Up front Sturridge and Origi, but there is no need to push out anyone else unless Ings decides he wants to leave for regular football.

Then there is the annual cull of the under 23s.
Thing is, your list would involve keeping the likes of Marko, Bogdan and Flanagan, all contracted to summer 2019.

I agree with the principle of don't sell unless we really have no need of a player, but I don't think anyone on my list of definite sales/departures was contentious. The potential sales list was, but that was the point really.
 



Iluvatar

Allez Allez Allez
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
6,014
Likes
8,931
#26
I'd keep everyone bar - Mignolet, Bodgan, Sturridge, Origi, Markovic, Ings, Flanno, Randall, Kent
Loans for - Grujic, Woodburn, Ejaria, Ojo, Allan, Ward
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
18,353
Likes
30,502
#27
Thing is, your list would involve keeping the likes of Marko, Bogdan and Flanagan, all contracted to summer 2019.

I agree with the principle of don't sell unless we really have no need of a player, but I don't think anyone on my list of definite sales/departures was contentious. The potential sales list was, but that was the point really.
Well, I'd include those in the general cull of lads we've forgotten we ever signed.