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Who would you keep ?



rockafella

Registered before you did
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Feb 1, 2004
Messages
841
I wouldn't be in a rush to sell anyone after the injury situation we had this season. I don't rate Lallana very highly, but he's a really keen company man who'd put up with 15 appearances a season just so he could stay.

That said, I'd rather we sell deadwood than loan them out, which just irritates me e.g. Markovic.
 

UpTheReds

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Joined
May 26, 2018
Messages
466
GK - Ward, Grabara. Mignolet clearly not good enough and I can't imagine he really wants to stay. Karius I just can't see his defense having confidence in him anymore. Bogdan -- obvious things are obvious.

Defense - Clyne, Klavan until 2019 contract expiry. If a quality CB is bought, then maybe Klavan or Matip can go. I don't expect it.

Midfield - Wijnaldum, loan the rest as it's not worth selling them. Ox is injured and probably won't be back to the best until after winter break. Lallana is completely unreliable right now until proven otherwise. That thins out what looks like a logjam pretty quick.

Wingers - Keep Wilson, loan Kent, Ojo; hopefully sell Markovic.

Forwards - Keep Solanke and Woodburn, obviously. No reason to sell Awoniyi, really. Sturridge is gone. Ings and Origi depends on the market.
 

Dhoff3

TIA Squad Member
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
1,673
Good question. I'd like to keep for backup/depth:

DEF (new keeper in)

Clyne
Karius
Gomez
Moreno (unless someone comes with an offer in which case I'd consider)
Klavan (I'd go either way but as I understand he's signed another year)

MF (Fekir, Keita and Fabinho in)

Lallana
Grujic (make or break season, give him a shot)
The other Loanee's like Chiv, Markovic, etc. loan or sold if able to

Attack (I imagine we'll buy one someone to rotate in with Mo, Mane, Bobby)

Ings
Harry Wilson (if he becomes our back up striker, probably sell Ings)
Loan Solanke and Woodburn
Sell Origi and Sturridge
 

shachart

"You're supposed to help people that need a bit."
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
Messages
2,042
If there is no need to sell, I don't think we should be discarding players. We were thread bare at the final push of the season, why go through that again next season. If they are not looking to leave, keep them. They've been training with Klopp for 3 years now, knows exactly what needs to be done in their own spot. We need quality and able backups. Keep them I say, if they didn't ask for a move.
We were thin bare but Klopp still didn't use these players. Woodburn is the most obvious example.
 



lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
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Sep 18, 2006
Messages
53,067
We were thin bare but Klopp still didn't use these players. Woodburn is the most obvious example.
Wasn't he injured and recovering from injury at the time? And you would sell Woodburn now also I didn't see anyone suggesting to sell Woodburn. Weird question to ask though....
 

Flobs

FADA
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Apr 20, 2015
Messages
9,061
Wasn't he injured and recovering from injury at the time? And you would sell Woodburn now also I didn't see anyone suggesting to sell Woodburn. Weird question to ask though....
Well you just don't sell under 21's of that quality do you? :)
With you all the way on this Eddie.^^
 

Sweeting

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Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
8,575
I wouldn't sell anyone unless Klopp thinks they're...

1. Better off leaving to get some game time.
2. Hurtful to the atmosphere of the squad.

Not sure we have anyone who comes into "2" since the squad looked so bonded this year.

That just leaves "1". In which case probably just let players like Sturridge and Bogdan go who almost certainly would never get to play.
 

redharel

Banned Users
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May 28, 2018
Messages
17
Keep:
Clyne
Trent
Van Dijk
Lovren
Gomez - Last chance, if he he goes through another injured season we should send him on his way
Matip
Robertson
Oxlade - Chamberlain
Henderson
Milner
Salah
Mane
Firmino


Sell:
Karius
Mignolet
Ward
Moreno
Klavan
Bogdan
Wijnaldum - not good enough, maybe we can get few quids on him
Flanagan
Sturridge
Markovic - why did we sign him in the first place?
Grujic - why did we sign him in the first place?
Lallana - not good enough and injury prone
Ings - wish him all the best, very unlucky
Origi - not good enough, maybe we can get few quids on him
Chirivella
Solanke - why did we sign him in the first place?

Loan:
Wilson
Woodburn
Ejaria

Buy:
2 GK (1 WC and a back up - don't want any of our 3 as a back up, 2 of them had their chance and they didn't deliver, the 3rd one is not good enougn)
1 LB
1 CB
1 Playmaker
1 Winger (at least if not 2, Salah & Mane are the only true ones we have with no back up)
1 Forward
 



shachart

"You're supposed to help people that need a bit."
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Messages
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Wasn't he injured and recovering from injury at the time? And you would sell Woodburn now also I didn't see anyone suggesting to sell Woodburn. Weird question to ask though....
In no way am I advocating selling Woodburn ( see previous posts I mae ), I was using him as an example.
In your original comment you wrote that we need a big squad ( which I agree ) even by keeping players just for the off chance we get a lot of injuries like we did this year. When this season started, Klopp had 7 senior midfielders for 3 slots, Coutinho left, Lallana got injured, than Can and finally Ox. So for the last stretch of the season, Klopp as left with only 3 able midfielders. Which I believe is he point you are making.

However, and here is where Woodburn is used as an example, even during that long last month, Klopp used TAA and even Firmino once in the midfield rather than using Woodburn ( let alone using Camacho or Brewster ). Maybe Klopp does not believe in giving chances to kids so late in the season? Maybe throwing a player ( doesn't have to be young ) that hasn't played all season is counter productive ?

Players need to play, when they don't they are rusty, they are off the pace, less confident and most importantly not getting any better, which is what everybody wants from our young players.

Grujic just finished a very impressive loan. As it is now, there are 7 senior players in front of him and maybe more are coming ( Fekir ?!? ). Firmino is our central forward, he has 3 "natural" backups : Ings, Solanke, Woodburn ( with Origi an d Sturridge returning form loans, and Mane and Salah can play central as well ). We agree none of the 3 is a suitable backup so we need another one. Where do you see Woodburn getting any minutes ?

I think a healthy squad should have 2 players fighting for each position, and a third young player as a backup option.

I would do the following:

Gk - Bring a new proven #1, Ward as 2nd ( promise to play him in domestic cups ), loan karius, sell Migs and Bogdan.
CB - Between VVD, Lovren, Klavan, Matip and Gomez, I think we are set.
RB - TAA and Clyne. With a heavy heart sell Flanno and Randall.
LB - Robo and Moreno. I wouldn't frown on a more reliable backup for Robo and sell Moreno, but that is not a priority now.
Holding / DM - Fabinho and Hendo. Keep Grujic as he can cover that position.
CM - Milner, Keita. Grujic a good 3rd option. Sell Gini and Chirivella. Loan out Ejaria.
CAM - Lallana, Ox ( injured for the first few month ), need to bring someone new, Maybe Fekir.
Wingers - Salah, Mane. Keep both Kent and Wilson, who ever takes his chances better wins. No need to go and spend on another winger. Sell Markovic if someone is willing to pay for him. Loan out Ojo.
Forwards - Firmino. Bring another new forward. Solanke 3rd choice ( Last chance ) . Loan out Woodburn ( he needs to play ). Sell Sturridge, Origi and Ings.

Sell list - Migs, Bogdan, Flanno, Randall, Gini, Chirivella, Markovic, Sturridge, Origi and Ings. All in all 10 players.
Loan list -Karius, Ejaria, Ojo, Woodburn. 4 Players.
 

OLDIE

TIA New Signing
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In no way am I advocating selling Woodburn ( see previous posts I mae ), I was using him as an example.
In your original comment you wrote that we need a big squad ( which I agree ) even by keeping players just for the off chance we get a lot of injuries like we did this year. When this season started, Klopp had 7 senior midfielders for 3 slots, Coutinho left, Lallana got injured, than Can and finally Ox. So for the last stretch of the season, Klopp as left with only 3 able midfielders. Which I believe is he point you are making.

However, and here is where Woodburn is used as an example, even during that long last month, Klopp used TAA and even Firmino once in the midfield rather than using Woodburn ( let alone using Camacho or Brewster ). Maybe Klopp does not believe in giving chances to kids so late in the season? Maybe throwing a player ( doesn't have to be young ) that hasn't played all season is counter productive ?

Players need to play, when they don't they are rusty, they are off the pace, less confident and most importantly not getting any better, which is what everybody wants from our young players.

Grujic just finished a very impressive loan. As it is now, there are 7 senior players in front of him and maybe more are coming ( Fekir ?!? ). Firmino is our central forward, he has 3 "natural" backups : Ings, Solanke, Woodburn ( with Origi an d Sturridge returning form loans, and Mane and Salah can play central as well ). We agree none of the 3 is a suitable backup so we need another one. Where do you see Woodburn getting any minutes ?

I think a healthy squad should have 2 players fighting for each position, and a third young player as a backup option.

I would do the following:

Gk - Bring a new proven #1, Ward as 2nd ( promise to play him in domestic cups ), loan karius, sell Migs and Bogdan.
CB - Between VVD, Lovren, Klavan, Matip and Gomez, I think we are set.
RB - TAA and Clyne. With a heavy heart sell Flanno and Randall.
LB - Robo and Moreno. I wouldn't frown on a more reliable backup for Robo and sell Moreno, but that is not a priority now.
Holding / DM - Fabinho and Hendo. Keep Grujic as he can cover that position.
CM - Milner, Keita. Grujic a good 3rd option. Sell Gini and Chirivella. Loan out Ejaria.
CAM - Lallana, Ox ( injured for the first few month ), need to bring someone new, Maybe Fekir.
Wingers - Salah, Mane. Keep both Kent and Wilson, who ever takes his chances better wins. No need to go and spend on another winger. Sell Markovic if someone is willing to pay for him. Loan out Ojo.
Forwards - Firmino. Bring another new forward. Solanke 3rd choice ( Last chance ) . Loan out Woodburn ( he needs to play ). Sell Sturridge, Origi and Ings.

Sell list - Migs, Bogdan, Flanno, Randall, Gini, Chirivella, Markovic, Sturridge, Origi and Ings. All in all 10 players.
Loan list -Karius, Ejaria, Ojo, Woodburn. 4 Players.
You are entitled to your opinion and it was an interesting read.

Selling Gini makes no sense whatsoever. He is probably the best we have at following precise instructions, he marks the space and shuts down the passing angles better than anyone at the club.

He may struggle at times moving the ball quickly, that's not a reason to sell him.

He is reliable and works extremely hard for no personal reward on the pitch. He is a great team player.

We have not seen the new lads play yet. How will they settle? Selling Gini would be a mistake.

I do think he may be sold. I hope not though.

I would also suggest that we must strenghten the centre half spots. Lovren deserves his spot alongside Virgil. Matip is to weak for me and he could make way for an incoming centre half.

The full back spots both need looking at. I am not sure about Clyne or Moreno perhaps on or both may move on.

Time will tell
 



ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
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Feb 10, 2009
Messages
15,743
We've got a nicely settled squad, no need for a major overhaul. Get rid of the players with one foot out the door already (Mig, Sturridge, Can) and build from there. That'd leave us with 3 unconvincing back up strikers, might as well sell 2 of them. Otherwise, we're all good.

I don't think there's anything to be gained by selling Lallana in the summer window, not with Chamberlain probably not being a viable option until 2019. Might as well give him at least half a season to see if he can regain his form from 16/17 (predominantly as a backup though, hopefully).
 

shachart

"You're supposed to help people that need a bit."
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Oct 26, 2009
Messages
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You are entitled to your opinion and it was an interesting read.

Selling Gini makes no sense whatsoever. He is probably the best we have at following precise instructions, he marks the space and shuts down the passing angles better than anyone at the club.

He may struggle at times moving the ball quickly, that's not a reason to sell him.

He is reliable and works extremely hard for no personal reward on the pitch. He is a great team player.

We have not seen the new lads play yet. How will they settle? Selling Gini would be a mistake.

I do think he may be sold. I hope not though.

I would also suggest that we must strenghten the centre half spots. Lovren deserves his spot alongside Virgil. Matip is to weak for me and he could make way for an incoming centre half.

The full back spots both need looking at. I am not sure about Clyne or Moreno perhaps on or both may move on.

Time will tell
Regarding Gini - Agree to disagree. He struggles moving the ball quickly, he doesn't score goals, he does not set up goals, he doesn't tackle, he doesn't win aerials, his passing range is limited. He does run a lot, I'll give him that.

Regarding better backup options on all positions in the back, I have no problem with that and I even welcome it, however, I think you will agree that those positions are not a priority in comparison to another attacking midfielder and forward.
 

Flobs

FADA
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Apr 20, 2015
Messages
9,061
Regarding Gini - Agree to disagree. He struggles moving the ball quickly, he doesn't score goals, he does not set up goals, he doesn't tackle, he doesn't win aerials, his passing range is limited. He does run a lot, I'll give him that.

Regarding better backup options on all positions in the back, I have no problem with that and I even welcome it, however, I think you will agree that those positions are not a priority in comparison to another attacking midfielder and forward.
I wouldn't describe that as running, light jogg? :tongue:
 

Flobs

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Our squad that started the 2017/2018 season was:

Liverpool
25 Squad players (*=Home grown)

Barbosa De Oliveira, Roberto Firmino
Bogdan, Adam Going?
Can, Emre Going?
Clyne, Nathaniel Edwin* HGP
Coutinho Correia, Philippe Gone
Flanagan, Jonathan* HGP Going?
Henderson, Jordan Brian* HGP
Ings, Daniel William John* HGP
Jones, Lloyd Richard* HGP (who is he?)
Karius, Loris Sven
Klavan, Ragnar
Lallana, Adam David* HGP
Lovren, Dejan
Mane, Sadio
Markovic, Lazar Going?
Matip, Job Joel Andre
Mignolet, Simon
Milner, James Philip* HGP
Moreno Perez, Alberto
Oxlade-Chamberlain, Alexander Mark David* HGP
Robertson, Andrew
Salah, Mohamed
Sturridge, Daniel* HGP Going?
Ward, Daniel* HGP
Wijnaldum, Georginio

The Squad can be composed of 17 players with HGPs (home grown players) making it up to 25 if you have them. LFC at the start of the season had 10 HGPs. The can be changed in January.
Over the corse of the year VVD came in and Coutinho went out. Certain went out on loan Markovic and Sturridge.

We can lose 2 HPGs and keep a squad of 25 without bringing in a HGP i.e we can bring in 2 foreign trained players by eliminating 2 HGP from the list.
NB there might be youth players coming of age that we might want to incorporate in the 25 as well.

I have marked 5 players as going and we have 2 players known to be coming in (Keita and Fabinho). That essentially leaves us with 3 spots for new players to take up (which would be my estimate for players coming in over the summer).

Of course it's never as simple as that (I haven't considered youth players coming of age and integrating the squad for example) or players other than Can who want to leave or retire. All I have done is give a base line.

I think this highlights the potential importance Ward has over other goalkeepers if he can make the grade. If sturridge and Flannagan go (HGP) we drop to 8 HGPs after that our squad starts to shrink. (excluding any youth coming of age).

It's a juggling act, no?

Any comments and/or corrections would be appreciated. :)
 



Sweeting

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
8,575
You can add 2 more so we'll have 2 for each position, it's more than enough + few kids coming down the flanks.
Less weekly pay check for salary and more to buy a true quality.
I think that's cutting it very fine.

This season we had 29 players make an appearance for the first team. 19 of those started double figures for games in all comps. 23 players made double figures for starts. That's before we start talking about youth players being introduced.

With 23 players bearing the brunt of the season we ran out of steam massively towards the end of the year, and that was even with us suffering early exits in the FA and League cups.
 

Flobs

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Messages
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I think that's cutting it very fine.

This season we had 29 players make an appearance for the first team. 19 of those started double figures for games in all comps. 23 players made double figures for starts. That's before we start talking about youth players being introduced.

With 23 players bearing the brunt of the season we ran out of steam massively towards the end of the year, and that was even with us suffering early exits in the FA and League cups.
Yep! If you can have 25 you make damn sure you have 25. 8 HGPs minimum or I will be upset. ^^
Kent can be coming in!
 



redharel

Banned Users
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Messages
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I think that's cutting it very fine.

This season we had 29 players make an appearance for the first team. 19 of those started double figures for games in all comps. 23 players made double figures for starts. That's before we start talking about youth players being introduced.

With 23 players bearing the brunt of the season we ran out of steam massively towards the end of the year, and that was even with us suffering early exits in the FA and League cups.

We run out of steam because our main players(Bobby, Mo, Mane) had no decent sub so they had to play most of the games when all the pressure was on them. Get 22 quality players who can come on without the team suffer a big fall in quality and you will see we can cope with 22 players.

I will add that we shouldn't use our best 11 in the League cup/FA cup at least not before the semi finals, it should be a platform for young/return from injury players. That way the most a player will have to play is 38 league games + Europe which is max 13 games, so overall that's 51 games and it's a decent number.
 

inaiq

"Some people feel the rain others just get wet"
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Feb 11, 2011
Messages
6,218
Grujic gets to stay (I still think he's a good player I've just cooled off due to him being loaned out)
I "watched" Gujic play a few times and the loan has done him good. The thing that caught my eye in the games was his in-game intelligence and deceptive speed.

Grujic is the one that bugs me. He's just turned 22 which is probably on that border where he should probably be pushing for a first team spot if not already there. I suspect he may not make it or maybe he would have been kept at the club rather than loaned out.
I think he is a better version Can at the same age/stage due to the loan spell.

The player that has disappointed me most is Lallana (lack of consistency and fitness issues) the incident with the U23 has left a bad taste and other teams know his weaknesses, not sure he has it in him to adapt due to his fitness limitations.

IMO, get rid off any player who wants to haggle over money and playing time. They get paid plenty and they must earn the right to play.