Better than Can is saying something given that Klopp has had a decent look at him before his loan. I certainly agree that the loan has done hime wonders though. Playing slightly deeper etc.I "watched" Gujic play a few times and the loan has done him good. The thing that caught my eye in the games was his in-game intelligence and deceptive speed.
I think he is a better version Can at the same age/stage due to the loan spell.
The player that has disappointed me most is Lallana (lack of consistency and fitness issues) the incident with the U23 has left a bad taste and other teams know his weaknesses, not sure he has it in him to adapt due to his fitness limitations.
IMO, get rid off any player who wants to haggle over money and playing time. They get paid plenty and they must earn the right to play.
I think the better question I would post to you is,"Why the need to sell?". If the players themselves wanting to go, don't mind them leaving, but why the need to sell with all your examples about Wijnaldum, Woodburn and so on?In no way am I advocating selling Woodburn ( see previous posts I mae ), I was using him as an example.
In your original comment you wrote that we need a big squad ( which I agree ) even by keeping players just for the off chance we get a lot of injuries like we did this year. When this season started, Klopp had 7 senior midfielders for 3 slots, Coutinho left, Lallana got injured, than Can and finally Ox. So for the last stretch of the season, Klopp as left with only 3 able midfielders. Which I believe is he point you are making.
However, and here is where Woodburn is used as an example, even during that long last month, Klopp used TAA and even Firmino once in the midfield rather than using Woodburn ( let alone using Camacho or Brewster ). Maybe Klopp does not believe in giving chances to kids so late in the season? Maybe throwing a player ( doesn't have to be young ) that hasn't played all season is counter productive ?
Players need to play, when they don't they are rusty, they are off the pace, less confident and most importantly not getting any better, which is what everybody wants from our young players.
Grujic just finished a very impressive loan. As it is now, there are 7 senior players in front of him and maybe more are coming ( Fekir ?!? ). Firmino is our central forward, he has 3 "natural" backups : Ings, Solanke, Woodburn ( with Origi an d Sturridge returning form loans, and Mane and Salah can play central as well ). We agree none of the 3 is a suitable backup so we need another one. Where do you see Woodburn getting any minutes ?
I think a healthy squad should have 2 players fighting for each position, and a third young player as a backup option.
I would do the following:
Gk - Bring a new proven #1, Ward as 2nd ( promise to play him in domestic cups ), loan karius, sell Migs and Bogdan.
CB - Between VVD, Lovren, Klavan, Matip and Gomez, I think we are set.
RB - TAA and Clyne. With a heavy heart sell Flanno and Randall.
LB - Robo and Moreno. I wouldn't frown on a more reliable backup for Robo and sell Moreno, but that is not a priority now.
Holding / DM - Fabinho and Hendo. Keep Grujic as he can cover that position.
CM - Milner, Keita. Grujic a good 3rd option. Sell Gini and Chirivella. Loan out Ejaria.
CAM - Lallana, Ox ( injured for the first few month ), need to bring someone new, Maybe Fekir.
Wingers - Salah, Mane. Keep both Kent and Wilson, who ever takes his chances better wins. No need to go and spend on another winger. Sell Markovic if someone is willing to pay for him. Loan out Ojo.
Forwards - Firmino. Bring another new forward. Solanke 3rd choice ( Last chance ) . Loan out Woodburn ( he needs to play ). Sell Sturridge, Origi and Ings.
Sell list - Migs, Bogdan, Flanno, Randall, Gini, Chirivella, Markovic, Sturridge, Origi and Ings. All in all 10 players.
Loan list -Karius, Ejaria, Ojo, Woodburn. 4 Players.
Kent and Grujic out on loan?Working from the 25 man squad list and the already signed players, the only ones I would definitely sell regardless are:
Coutinho (already sold)
Jones (already sold)
14. GK (Alisson/Oblak)
15. AM (Fekir?)
16. Winger (Pulisic)
Home grown defender
So one further player to be sold or loaned (Matip?)
and that would be my summer business completed.
As I say i"m not sure who still qualifies as under 21 for this season. If they do then keep them or loan them. Not fussed really. Same for Woodburn, Ejaria, Ojo etc.Kent and Grujic out on loan?
Would be nice to keep Ward and Kent in the squad just for HGP bragging rights. ^^As I say i"m not sure who still qualifies as under 21 for this season. If they do then keep them or loan them. Not fussed really. Same for Woodburn, Ejaria, Ojo etc.
Klopp has already shown with TAA that if you are good enough you can make it here. I do wonder sometimes if we rate our youngsters too highly. While it would be great if they worked out here, Klopp is the best judge of that, and if they aren't considered good enough, I am okay with that.
Either way, the first 10 I listed would be definite sellers, the rest I'm trusting Klopp will make the right decision about.
Yeah I'll keep them all if we can fit them in. I mean while I am happy to keep Milner and Lallana, realistically I see them only having 1 more season with us, so if we can keep and develop the likes of Kent and Woodburn etc then it will be to our benefit in the following seasons.Would be nice to keep Ward and Kent in the squad just for HGP bragging rights. ^^
Grujic is a difficult one. He is definitely talented but without game time looks like he gets bored and frustrated. If he isn't going to get a few matches I think it's best to loan him for the whole season, which is a shame as I like him (not that that should of of major consideration :J).
True Klopp has had a good look at him and he doesn't give up on players unless they make the choice not to adapt or except thier current reality.Better than Can is saying something given that Klopp has had a decent look at him before his loan. I certainly agree that the loan has done hime wonders though. Playing slightly deeper etc.
That is a great question. Really.I think the better question I would post to you is,"Why the need to sell?". If the players themselves wanting to go, don't mind them leaving, but why the need to sell with all your examples about Wijnaldum, Woodburn and so on?
To be registered as an under 21 player for the 2018/19 season, a player has to be born after 1st January 1997. So the likes of Wilson, Woodburn, TAA, Gomez, Solanke, Ejaria & Ojo will all qualify as under 21s.As I say i"m not sure who still qualifies as under 21 for this season.
For the PL, yes. However, Solanke will not for the CL as to qualify for the B list players need to have been at the club for 2 full seasons.To be registered as an under 21 player for the 2018/19 season, a player has to be born after 1st January 1997. So the likes of Wilson, Woodburn, TAA, Gomez, Solanke, Ejaria & Ojo will all qualify as under 21s.
*cough*Moreno*cough*For the PL, yes. However, Solanke will not for the CL as to qualify for the B list players need to have been at the club for 2 full seasons.
It is something to keep in mind that at present the squad we are working from (including our 3 keepers, 2 new additions, but excluding all the lads who were out on loan the second half of the season and Can) is 24 strong. In the CL we will only be allowed to register 21 of those plus TAA and Gomez because we will have No Club trained players on the A list. So, we're already looking at having to exclude one player from the current group for the CL squad even before we bring anyone else in. Obviously if that player is someone like Oblak the decision takes care of itself because it means we get rid of a keeper. It becomes more complicated if we bring in someone like Fekir, because we will not simply be able to add him to the group without requiring someone else to sit down.
Well yeah. He is the obvious candidate. Also, we might consider not registering Ox for the group stage, which gives us half a season to consider the options. However, the larger point is that when I disagree with the common refrain on there that we don't have squad depth that is not just a subjective thing, but actually evidenced by the fact that for the CL we are already at the stage of needing to get rid of one player to make room if we want to bring in a new one.*cough*Moreno*cough*
What I'm interested in is usable players. In reality we had 20 usable outfield players after January (when signing VVD but selling/loaning Coutinho, Sturridge and Grujic took us down to 20 from 22). That includes those injured at the time, like Clyne and Lallana.Been scouting around.
Our revised squad of Jan 2018 had 21 players in the 25 player squad allowed.
Of that list 2 players contracts end this summer Can (Gone) and Bogdan (Gone on a free) If we keep Bogdan I will do something silly.
That means after deductions we have a squad of 19 players leaving 6 places empty.
If we add Grujic and Kent who are now over 21 and Kieta and Fabinho that still leaves us room for 2 more players.
So why are we talking of selling players?
If we need room in the squad I would first look at loaning out Grujic and/or Kent. If we bring in a new super goalkeeper personally I think 4 goalkeepers is overkill and should sell any one of our absolute shit ones except Ward as he is a HGP.
IMO we should keep all squad members if possible unless, most importantly we need squad space for adding a better player, they are being arseholes (only Klopp and his staff can judge that (example Sakho) or are absolute shit like our goalkeepers then they should be moved on. At the moment we just don't need to liberate space even if it would be nice to off load Karius and Mignolet.
For the CL it is clearly more complicated but taking the EPL squad is a good starting point.
Revised squad as of end Jan 2018:
25 Squad players
Barbosa De Oliveira, Roberto Firmino
Bogdan, Adam Free agent
Can, Emre Free agent
Clyne, Nathaniel Edwin*
Henderson, Jordan Brian*
Ings, Daniel William John*
Karius, Loris Sven
Lallana, Adam David*
Matip, Job Joel Andre
Milner, James Philip*
Moreno Perez, Alberto
Oxlade-Chamberlain, Alexander Mark David*
Van Dijk, Virgil
There's no real news on Sturridge and I think perhaps we are thinking of keeping him another year (means in theory we can delay buying a striker for a year however what does that serve if he can not play?)What I'm interested in is usable players. In reality we had 20 usable outfield players after January (when signing VVD but selling/loaning Coutinho, Sturridge and Grujic took us down to 20 from 22). That includes those injured at the time, like Clyne and Lallana.
That's not enough, as we saw when 3 or 4 injuries left us with no rotation options in some departments and very little on the bench.
Not every player has to be same level, you can have 4 or 5 squad positions filled by players who'd only play in an emergency or against lower league sides in cups, like a 4th centre back, 3rd keeper, or 3rd striker. These may be experienced veterans like Klavan or developing youngsters like Grujic and Solanke.
But you definitely need a group of players who can be interchanged seamlessly, a couple of further quality options (even if not quite the same level), then the 4 or 5 emergency players in squad positions 21 to 25.
For me, to compete you need two quality options at 9, three for the wide forward positions, two for AM/10, five for CM, three for centre back, your full backs and of course keeper.
That's your main 18 man squad, to which you add the back up keepers, 4th centre back, back up full backs and a third striker, with maybe a utility player taking it to 25.
To me we're a 10 (Fekir), striker, winger and keeper short of that.
To take the current 23 to 25, presuming we keep 3 keepers (even if we buy and sell within that department) and with Can gone and two midfielders signed, we need to be signing the three outfield players outlined above on top of the two bought and releasing two players.
One of those would be Ings, with Solanke kept as the third striker, the other would be Lallana, Clyne or Klavan.
I think Klopp and Edwards have done a great job of building the squad to this point, although of course they've got to have a good summer again to finish off the job.
But I have to say it worries me how they left us short of forward options this season, initially by loaning Origi on the eve of the season, then loaning Sturridge in January. Yes they weren't going to contribute enough, but it was still an issue.
We finished the season with five forwards for three positions and only because we didn't suffer key injuries in that department did we not suffer as a result.
Ok, if he gets named in the squad I need suggestions of silly things I can do (which can not include eating my pubic hairs as I've already said that if we buy Dembele I would do that). :unhappy:Bogdan's got another year left mate. lol
One of the saddest piece of business we've made, even on a free.
Why sell U21s?Players for sale - Mignolet, Karius, Bogdan, Flanagan, Randall, Markovic, Kent, Ejaria, Ojo, Allan, Chirivella, Sturridge, Origi and Ings.
Hopefully these players could generate at least 50 mln. pounds.