Who would you keep ?

Red Tiger

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Imho DS, Origi and Ings are not up to the required quality or fitness level and will be sold. Solanke and Brewster will get chances in cup games and will make bench in few other games. Bobby will be main striker with Fekir/Dybala/Alternative as the second choice. If we couldn't get any of above and Bobby needs rest, probably Salah will be the striker with Shaqiri playing on the right.
But can Fekir or Dybala play as the primary striker? And will they be happy to sit on the bench as cover for Firmino? I think Fekir is being sought as a Coutinho replacement for the second no. 8 role in midfield who can also cover right Salah's right wing role when required.
 

The Elusive 19th

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But can Fekir or Dybala play as the primary striker? And will they be happy to sit on the bench as cover for Firmino? I think Fekir is being sought as a Coutinho replacement for the second no. 8 role in midfield who can also cover right Salah's right wing role when required.
Per my understanding, Fekir is sought for Cou role on left, Cou role on midfield and Bobby's backup as a striker. Dybala can play on left, center and number 10 i think.
 

big noyd

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ward
van dijk
klavan
gomez
matip (lovren is fash)
robertson
moreno
taa
clyne
(fabinho)
(keita)
henderson
milner
wijnaldum
ox
woodburn
(shaqiri)
mane
firmino
salah
brewster
solanke
ojo
loan wilson/kent/ejaria
 

RedForever2014

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I'm not discussing the keepers as the department has to be considered separately to the outfield players.

We need 22 or 23 outfield players, so that the three or four injuries you always have still leaves you with rotation options. We saw at the end of the season the impact of only having 20 outfield players.

We need to stay with nine defenders for four positions given the injuries they suffer. I can't see any of the current 9 leaving unless we sign someone.

We need the five central midfielders we have (Keita, Fab, Hendo, Gini, Milner) for the two or three positions that require a lot of rotation. If we don't see any injuries in that department in pre season I'd loan Grujic out again, but with a recall option for January. A full PL season would show us once and for all whether he's got what we need.

That leaves 9 attacking midfielders come forwards.

If we buy another top quality forward/10, as we should, then with Shaqiri, Oxlade (when fit) and the front three we'd have 6, plus Lallana as a midfielder come attacking midfielder, which leaves room for a couple of proper strikers.

IMO we need to play with a proper 9 sometimes with three behind.

I would consider keeping Sturridge for the final year of his contract for that role if he could be relied on to be fit, but we all know he can't.

Origi is a mystery to me, he looked really good until an injury which wasn't that bad it should have derailed his career.

Solanke should have done better last season than he did and Brewster is very young to be anything other than a bit part player.

So I'm not sure which two I'd keep, probably Brewster given that he needs to be around Klopp for a year at least, maybe Solanke, although if Origi can show something in the coming weeks, ideally we'd keep him and sell Sturridge and loan out Solanke.
 

jackh1092

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Right backs:

Clyne, TAA + Gomez(also CB)

Left Backs:

Robbo + Moreno

Centre Backs:

VVD, Lovren, Klavan, Gomez, Matip --keep all, only sell perhaps Matip if we sign one.

Mids:

Milner, Hendo, Keita, Fabinho, Ox, Wij, Lallana (maybe Fekir added here + to attack)

Sell:
Personally, injuries happen and Ox can't be relied upon until the second half of the season, Lallana frail too. I'd keep all, but if we get Fekir, maybe sell Wijnaldum at a push.

Forwards:

Firmino, Salah, Mane, Shaq, Brewster (Fekir can fill in here too)

Sell: Woodburn+Wilson+Ojo loans. Origi out the door quick, along with Sturridge. Solanke, loan out probs too, or keep depending.
 

lfc.eddie

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Would it be a problem for everyone if we don't buy any more players and at the same time don't sell any of our current ones? I for one don't mind it one bit.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Would it be a problem for everyone if we don't buy any more players and at the same time don't sell any of our current ones? I for one don't mind it one bit.
I'd want us to sort out the keeper situation first and maybe get rid of a couple of Origi, Ings, Solanke (loan only), Sturridge and Markovic. Maybe a few development loans for some kids. But in general I agree. Would certainly happily keep defence and midfield as they are. Just got too many options in attack and not necessarily the appropriate cover despite those numbers. I only see 2 more players in this window though Alisson and Fekir or alternative options.
 

lfc.eddie

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I'd want us to sort out the keeper situation first and maybe get rid of a couple of Origi, Ings, Solanke (loan only), Sturridge and Markovic. Maybe a few development loans for some kids. But in general I agree. Would certainly happily keep defence and midfield as they are. Just got too many options in attack and not necessarily the appropriate cover despite those numbers. I only see 2 more players in this window though Alisson and Fekir or alternative options.
So you do mind and see a problem of us not doing any more business from here on.... I don't. Those names you mentioned, if they don't want to leave they can stay. And if we don't have the dough to buy those two names you mentioned, I don't really care that much. Not that any of us have seen how Fekir had performed week-in, week-out.

I can be critical over the owners and the club finances, but I am more than willing to see them stop buying now and not have to be forced to sell as well. If that's our quota for the season, Fabinho, Shaqiri and Keita, then so be it (and no we didn't buy Keita last season). And here's why (when all fit)...

Team A
Karius
Clyne Lovren Van Dijk Robertson
Fabinho
Oxlade Keita
Salah Firmino Mane​

Team B
Ward/Mig
Alex-A Matip Klavan Moreno
Henderson
Lallana Milner
Shaqiri Sturridge Origi​

Uhm.... not too bad, not bad at all. Yet to put Gomez, Solanke, Woodburn, Wijnaldum, Markovic, Grujic in there.... Bloody hell.
 
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Anfield rd Dreamer

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So you do mind and see a problem of us not doing any more business from here on.... I don't. Those names you mentioned, if they don't want to leave they can stay. And if we don't have the dough to buy those two names you mentioned, I don't really care that much. Not that any of us have seen how Fekir had performed week-in, week-out.

I can be critical over the owners and the club finances, but I am more than willing to see them stop buying now and not have to be forced to sell as well. If that's our quota for the season, Fabinho, Shaqiri and Keita, then so be it (and no we didn't buy Keita last season). And here's why (when all fit)...

Team A
Karius
Clyne Lovren Van Dijk Robertson
Fabinho
Oxlade Keita
Salah Firmino Mane​

Team B
Ward/Mig
Alex-A Matip Klavan Moreno
Henderson
Lallana Milner
Shaqiri Sturridge Origi​

Uhm.... not too bad, not bad at all. Yet to put Gomez, Solanke, Woodburn, Wijnaldum, Markovic, Grujic in there.... Bloody hell.
I think (might be wrong haven't time to check) that if we start the season with everyone we currently have we would have senior players in the roster we couldn't use as we'd have too many senior players for the rules.
 

lfc.eddie

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I think (might be wrong haven't time to check) that if we start the season with everyone we currently have we would have senior players in the roster we couldn't use as we'd have too many senior players for the rules.
What rules might that be? I have never heard of restrictions imposed on clubs having senior players. If that is true City and Chelsea would have been suspended every season though.
 

Lowton_Red

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What rules might that be? I have never heard of restrictions imposed on clubs having senior players. If that is true City and Chelsea would have been suspended every season though.
I think @Anfield rd Dreamer was referring to the Premier League restrictions on the number of senior players who do not fulfil home grown player status:

"After the closing of the summer transfer window each Premier League club had until 4pm BST on 1 September to submit a squad list containing no more than 17 players who do not fulfil the "Home Grown Player" (HGP) criteria.

The rest of the squad, up to a total of 25 players, must be Home Grown.

An HGP means a player who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to The Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons, or 36 months, before his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).

Changes to the squad list of 25 may be made during the period of a transfer window.

Under-21 players are eligible over and above the limit of 25 players per squad.

For the 2017/18 campaign Under-21 players will have been born on or after 1 January 1996."
 

lfc.eddie

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Well @Lowton_Red, in that case, my list has more than enough homegrown to fulfil the requirement no? Karius would be considered 1 too I think. Mane, Salah, Firmino, Van Dijk, Klavan, Matip, Lovren, Moreno, Keita, Fabinho, Shaqiri, Origi, Wijnaldum and Mignolet would be outside the Homegrown quota, so that's 14 players. You could even add Markovic and Grujic in there and we still meet the quota of 17 players.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Well @Lowton_Red, in that case, my list has more than enough homegrown to fulfil the requirement no? Karius would be considered 1 too I think. Mane, Salah, Firmino, Van Dijk, Klavan, Matip, Lovren, Moreno, Keita, Fabinho, Shaqiri, Origi, Wijnaldum and Mignolet would be outside the Homegrown quota, so that's 14 players. You could even add Markovic and Grujic in there and we still meet the quota of 17 players.
If no players leave the club we have more than 25 senior footballers on our books right now so wouldn't be allowed to play some of them. We'd pay a whole years wages to some players to do no more than take part in training with us. I havent looked this up just going on memory. Think we currently have 15 senior players in goal, defence and CM that I wouldn't personally change except 1 or 2 keepers out and 1 in, so 14/15 anyway. But currently at least 15 unless im forgetting someone. In the attack i think we currently have on the books; Lallana, Ox, Kent, Shaqiri, Markovic, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Sturridge, Origi, Ings who count as senior. So if we sold nobody at this stage we are wasting money and having players on the books we would not be able to actually use. Its even more strict when it comes to the options for the European squad list. We need some playing time for kids too. Personally Markovic, Sturridge, Origi, Ings would all leave permanently and one player would come in who can cover CAM/10 and false 9/9. Fekir or alternative.
 

lfc.eddie

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If no players leave the club we have more than 25 senior footballers on our books right now so wouldn't be allowed to play some of them. We'd pay a whole years wages to some players to do no more than take part in training with us. I havent looked this up just going on memory. Think we currently have 15 senior players in goal, defence and CM that I wouldn't personally change except 1 or 2 keepers out and 1 in, so 14/15 anyway. But currently at least 15 unless im forgetting someone. In the attack i think we currently have on the books; Lallana, Ox, Kent, Shaqiri, Markovic, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Sturridge, Origi, Ings who count as senior. So if we sold nobody at this stage we are wasting money and having players on the books we would not be able to actually use. Its even more strict when it comes to the options for the European squad list. We need some playing time for kids too. Personally Markovic, Sturridge, Origi, Ings would all leave permanently and one player would come in who can cover CAM/10 and false 9/9. Fekir or alternative.
Are you telling me once you got the senior tag, home grown status thrown out of the window?
 

big noyd

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lallana is 30, has one goal since the calendar year of 2016, and gets a fat cheque
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Are you telling me once you got the senior tag, home grown status thrown out of the window?
Separate things. The rule domestically is 25 senior players of which 8 places have to be reserved for "homegrown"! In Europe it's still 25 senior players but 8 spots have to be left for association trained players and 4 of those have to be left for club developed players. Probably limits us to 21/22 senior spots on the European list. And Solanke actually has to be listed for a senior spot on European list if still here and not on loan.
 

lfc.eddie

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Separate things. The rule domestically is 25 senior players of which 8 places have to be reserved for "homegrown"! In Europe it's still 25 senior players but 8 spots have to be left for association trained players and 4 of those have to be left for club developed players. Probably limits us to 21/22 senior spots on the European list. And Solanke actually has to be listed for a senior spot on European list if still here and not on loan.
My question is, those English and British trained players that are now part of being a senior squad is no longer considered homegrown because they are now senior member of the squad? And you said it's separate "thing", but your entire post is about what I asked. So you are explaining to me when you're a senior player, you are no longer part of homegrown, since Solanke is now considered a senior member. But you advocate to sell Ings, Sturridge, loan Solanke out, to find a place for Fekir and Allison? How does that work? Limited spots for "senior" and needed homegrown, yet buy foreign players and slot them in somewhere?

Confusing....
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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My question is, those English and British trained players that are now part of being a senior squad is no longer considered homegrown because they are now senior member of the squad? And you said it's separate "thing", but your entire post is about what I asked. So you are explaining to me when you're a senior player, you are no longer part of homegrown, since Solanke is now considered a senior member. But you advocate to sell Ings, Sturridge, loan Solanke out, to find a place for Fekir and Allison? How does that work? Limited spots for "senior" and needed homegrown, yet buy foreign players and slot them in somewhere?

Confusing....
Right ok. You have senior and under 21. Black or white, yes or no. Only 2 options on that. Does a player qualify as senior or not domestically. Or phrased as A list or B list in Europe. Either way you are limited to a maximum of 25 players who are considered senior domestically or A list in Europe. That's one thing. At the moment we have more than 25 players so we can't use all the players we have.

Separate from that, domestically, you have home grown or not home grown. Yet again black or white, yes or no. 2 options. Of the 25 spots you are allowed domestically 8 have to be reserved for home grown and up to a maximum of 17 can be filled with non home grown. I dont think we have over 17 but we have more than 8 home grown.

Europe gets harder. You have association trained and club developed and then everyone else. Also under 21s are "free" domestically but in Europe they needed to spend 2 seasons at your club first. Solanke is young enough he should be a free selection domestically but won't in Europe although he will be association trained. 4 spots of your 25 have to be reserved for club developed players which for us is just Kent I think. So in Europe we are limited to 21 other spots plus Kent if he doesn't go out on loan. Of those 21 at least 4 have to be association trained (we have a lot more).

But on all roster rules for registered teams we are limited on how many senior players we can legally use. 25 domestically and probably 21 in Europe. So if we don't clear out a couple of senior players we will be paying them a years wages to train and maybe play in domestic cups as they wouldn't make the league squad or the European one.
 

Limiescouse

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Are you telling me once you got the senior tag, home grown status thrown out of the window?
You can only register 25 senior players for the league (U21s like Trent and Gomez do not count to that total). The maximum number of players who are not home grown in that list is 17. The remaining places in the squad have to be made up by homegrown (not necessarily English or british) players. There is no quota as such. You can have 0 home grown players, but you would be limited to registering just your 17 non-home grown players.

In UEFA competition, 4 of the 8 homegrown players must be club trained. None of our players meet that criteria (yet). The added kicker is that to qualify as a young player (as Dom, Trent, and Gomez do in the league) you additionally have to have been at the club for 2 full seasons. Dom does not meet this criterion, so will have to count as a senior player if he stays. As that gives us no club trained senior players, we will only be able to register 21 players (plus Trent and Gomez) for the CL. As it stands, even accounting for assumed outgoings like Markovic and Sturridge, if we assume we will have 3 keepers and that one of Dom, Ings and Origi will stay, we are already 2 players over that 21 man limit, and that is even before we sign Fekir (or similar player) or a CB.
 
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Irishanfield

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Right ok. You have senior and under 21. Black or white, yes or no. Only 2 options on that. Does a player qualify as senior or not domestically. Or phrased as A list or B list in Europe. Either way you are limited to a maximum of 25 players who are considered senior domestically or A list in Europe. That's one thing. At the moment we have more than 25 players so we can't use all the players we have.

Separate from that, domestically, you have home grown or not home grown. Yet again black or white, yes or no. 2 options. Of the 25 spots you are allowed domestically 8 have to be reserved for home grown and up to a maximum of 17 can be filled with non home grown. I dont think we have over 17 but we have more than 8 home grown.

Europe gets harder. You have association trained and club developed and then everyone else. Also under 21s are "free" domestically but in Europe they needed to spend 2 seasons at your club first. Solanke is young enough he should be a free selection domestically but won't in Europe although he will be association trained. 4 spots of your 25 have to be reserved for club developed players which for us is just Kent I think. So in Europe we are limited to 21 other spots plus Kent if he doesn't go out on loan. Of those 21 at least 4 have to be association trained (we have a lot more).

But on all roster rules for registered teams we are limited on how many senior players we can legally use. 25 domestically and probably 21 in Europe. So if we don't clear out a couple of senior players we will be paying them a years wages to train and maybe play in domestic cups as they wouldn't make the league squad or the European one.
Football manager is a great thing isn't it
 

lfc.eddie

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You can only register 25 senior players for the league (U21s like Trent and Gomez do not count to that total). The maximum number of players who are not home grown in that list is 17. The remaining places in the squad have to be made up by homegrown (not necessarily English or british) players. There is no quota as such. You can have 0 home grown players, but you would be limited to registering just your 17 non-home grown players.

In UEFA competition, 4 of the 8 homegrown players must be club trained. None of our players meet that criteria (yet). The added kicker is that to qualify as a young player (as Dom, Trent, and Gomez do in the league) you additionally have to have been at the club for 2 full seasons. Dom does not meet this criterion, so will have to count as a senior player if he stays. As that gives us no club trained senior players, we will only be able to register 21 players (plus Trent and Gomez) for the CL. As it stands, even accounting for assumed outgoings like Markovic and Sturridge, if we assume we will have 3 keepers and that one of Dom, Ings and Origi will stay, we are already 2 players over that 21 man limit, and that is even before we sign Fekir (or similar player) or a CB.
I get your point, just as I understand it as well, I just don't get what was explained in terms of homegrown and senior players. My list of players that I put forth way up there satisfy the 17 of non-homegrown players, but was told needed to offload some more because we need more homegrown because some in the lists are "senior"? That is the part that confuses me. Does that mean a guy like Henderson cannot be considered homegrown because he is a senior member of the squad?
 

Livvy

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Are you telling me once you got the senior tag, home grown status thrown out of the window?
No, but you can not have more than 8 in a domestic squadt added to the max 17 foreigners. But we have 1 / Henderson 2 / Ox 3 / Lallana 4 / Ward 5 / Robertson 6 / Ings 7 / Sturridge 8 / Ings + 9 / Solanke (because he is too old now as mentioned above) 10/Milner 11/Clyne
For Europe we are only allowed to have 4 homegrown added to the rest (max) 17foreigners. + 4 club trained which we don’t have apparently ;-):eh?:

Edit... Homegrown status actually only counts in addition to the max17 nothing else.
 
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Anfield rd Dreamer

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I get your point, just as I understand it as well, I just don't get what was explained in terms of homegrown and senior players. My list of players that I put forth way up there satisfy the 17 of non-homegrown players, but was told needed to offload some more because we need more homegrown because some in the lists are "senior"? That is the part that confuses me. Does that mean a guy like Henderson cannot be considered homegrown because he is a senior member of the squad?
We have more than 8 senior home grown players so if they all stay we can't list the full 17 none home grown senior players we are allowed. Both need to add up to 25 total. Can't list 17 plus the 11 home grown we have. And in Europe we would be limited to 21 not 25 so be able to use even fewer senior players. Henderson is both a senior player and a home grown player. Senior is just anyone who was already 21 by the 1st of Jan the year the season starts in. Home grown is anyone who spent 3 full seasons worth of their development on the books of an English or Welsh side before their 21st birthday.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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No, but you can not have more than 8 in a domestic squadt added to the max 17 foreigners. But we have 1 / Henderson 2 / Ox 3 / Lallana 4 / Ward 5 / Robertson 6 / Ings 7 / Sturridge 8 / Ings + 9 / Solanke (because he is too old now as mentioned above) 10/Milner 11/Clyne
For Europe we are only allowed to have 4 homegrown added to the rest (max) 17foreigners. + 4 club trained which we don’t have apparently ;-):eh?:

Edit... Homegrown status actually only counts in addition to the max17 nothing else.
Can have as many home grown as you like. Could list A full 25 man squad of home grown players if you wanted to. Its a limit on none home grown players within the 25. You aren't limited to only 8 home grown you are encouraged to list 8 or more home grown. Sorry it just sounded a little confusing the way you explained it. But clearly I'm not doing a great job of explaining it myself!
 

Livvy

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Can have as many home grown as you like. Could list A full 25 man squad of home grown players if you wanted to. Its a limit on none home grown players within the 25. You aren't limited to only 8 home grown you are encouraged to list 8 or more home grown. Sorry it just sounded a little confusing the way you explained it. But clearly I'm not doing a great job of explaining it myself!
Yep it's confusing that's why I've already edited my post. lol of course it's all about the max of 17 foreigners and the max of 25 in total + as much as we like youngsters ;-) homegrown status is just to make up the numbers in a " legal way" and nothing else.
 

lfc.eddie

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We have more than 8 senior home grown players so if they all stay we can't list the full 17 none home grown senior players we are allowed. Both need to add up to 25 total. Can't list 17 plus the 11 home grown we have. And in Europe we would be limited to 21 not 25 so be able to use even fewer senior players. Henderson is both a senior player and a home grown player. Senior is just anyone who was already 21 by the 1st of Jan the year the season starts in. Home grown is anyone who spent 3 full seasons worth of their development on the books of an English or Welsh side before their 21st birthday.
So just take Markovic out of my list would have solved all this ruckus then? And has nothing to do with Solanke being senior and so on? Or are we now not allowed to have more than 8 homegrown players?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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So just take Markovic out of my list would have solved all this ruckus then? And has nothing to do with Solanke being senior and so on? Or are we now not allowed to have more than 8 homegrown players?
If my rough numbers were right we have two issues. Markovic would leave and we would need someone to leave for every new player who comes in. That solves the Domestic list if I wasn't forgetting anyone (other youth players from academy may now qualify as senior I only know about Kent). But then you'd have to tell 4 of those senior players they won't be playing in Europe this year which would go down like a lead balloon especially as Klopp encourages a culture of earning things. Wouldn't matter how hard those 4 trained or how well they did in domestic games they still wouldn't be "rewarded" with glamorous champions league games. I don't see Klopp starting the season with more players than he'll have on his European squad. Going back to your original point as I said, I think you will get your wish with defence and midfield now being unchanged. I think Mignolet and either Karius or Ward will leave with a new keeper come in along with Grabara promoted to third choice. Then I think Solanke will go on loan and we will sell most or all of Ings, Origi, Sturridge and Markovic. One more attacking player come in.
 

lfc.eddie

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If my rough numbers were right we have two issues. Markovic would leave and we would need someone to leave for every new player who comes in.
In my list of players which we've been debating about, that I claimed that I don't mind not having any new incoming, has 26 players, and omitting Markovic who has not been with us since Rodgers days would have solved all the mystery, no? Who else did I insinuate that would come in where someone has to leave? I would assume we have more than 8 homegrown in my list (Lallana, Henderson, Milner, Gomez, Clyne, Alexander-Arnold, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Solanke, Sturridge, Woodburn and Karius (he was in City no?)), which fits the requirement. Still not accurate because most of the players listed are senior?