Xherdan Shaqiri - Welcome to Liverpool!

Spitfire

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#91
Like many here, I've seen quite a lot of Shakiri when BR tried to bring him, and after that With Stoke and now the world cup. Here is the quedtion, in the CL final last season Real were able to bring Bale from the bench, our option now is Shakiri. Does he look like any where near that level ?
If he would have cost 40mil, would you still think it was a good deal. He is a bargain because he is cheap, not because he is that good.

Young players need chances to prove themselves, if there are 3 senior players for a position, than the 4th option never gets to play. There is only so much time a player is willing to wait to get a shot.
In a normal market without a release clause he would be 30-40 million.....whether he is worh it of course is another debate.

As for the youth, its a double edged sword, they get there chance by forcing the manager to select them. If one of those young guys are going to make it they should back themselves to leap frog someone like Shaqiri, who in your book is average.

One final note on the Bale comment the answer is obvious, to note however in that final Milner, Henderson and Gini all started - they certainly won't be gauranteed starters this season. Add a number 10 to that Fekir or other, along with a fit Lallana - our bench starts to look much better overall for sure.
 
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#92
Like many here, I've seen quite a lot of Shakiri when BR tried to bring him, and after that With Stoke and now the world cup. Here is the quedtion, in the CL final last season Real were able to bring Bale from the bench, our option now is Shakiri. Does he look like any where near that level ?
If he would have cost 40mil, would you still think it was a good deal. He is a bargain because he is cheap, not because he is that good.

Young players need chances to prove themselves, if there are 3 senior players for a position, than the 4th option never gets to play. There is only so much time a player is willing to wait to get a shot.
Very few, if no other clubs in the world are in a position of whether to play Bale, Isco or Asensio. Have Shaqiri is a hell of a lot better to have as a option than Solanke or Ings or an out of position vet with match fitness for most of a year.

If the young players tear it up on loan and/or in training they will get chances. But it is not ideal to throw in players there is a better than even chance their opponents will just be a lot better and more experienced. You don't see the big squads experimenting with young players unless they are mega prospects (Asensio, Demeble, Sane, Jesus, Kimmich, Mbapp, etc) and nor should Liverpool.
 

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#93
Like many here, I've seen quite a lot of Shakiri when BR tried to bring him, and after that With Stoke and now the world cup. Here is the quedtion, in the CL final last season Real were able to bring Bale from the bench, our option now is Shakiri. Does he look like any where near that level ?
If he would have cost 40mil, would you still think it was a good deal. He is a bargain because he is cheap, not because he is that good.

Young players need chances to prove themselves, if there are 3 senior players for a position, than the 4th option never gets to play. There is only so much time a player is willing to wait to get a shot.
Bale doesn't play for us. The story is that when Salah was forced off with injury an unfit Lallana replaced him and dropped into midfield. If we had had Shaquiri and he was fit then we would have had another option from the bench that at least plays the same position.
Shaquiri is definitely an upgrade for our bench. He wanted to come to LFC would that have been the case of Bale?
Shaquiri is a few notches below Bale however he is much less selfish he's more of a team player and it's a team game.
I don't understand why people ask the types of questions you have. I mean Bale on the bench is also the choice of the manager another manager would have started Bale. All it proves is that RM have greater depth than we do and surely Shaquiri provides us with more depth and quality than we did have.
We will see what he has to offer. Yes i would have preferred Pulisic however I prefer Shaquiri to not getting anyone.
 

geebo

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#94
.Well done Edwards and team, youve brought in yet another astute signing, Fekir and God-willing, a proper 'keeper to come.
Yes totally agree. Our transfer dealing has improved dramatically. Look at Keita and the clever deal done a year ago. Fabinho and the deal no one saw coming. Getting a cheap price bargain in Shaq, and also putting the breaks on Fekir because of his partially botched knee job.
Finally we seem to have a bit of nous in transfer dealings.
 
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#95
I went for a walk and was thinking about the absurdity of @shachart 's proposal and came up with an antidote.
We play Bournemouth at least 2 times a year (even if qualifying for the CL we are not guaranteed a match against RM). When we play Bournemouth Jordan Ibe has come off the bench. Now ask yourself who would you prefer coming off our bench Jordan Ibe or Shaquiri?

I also wondered how Klopp sold Shaquiri on this one.
Klopp: 'Hi there Power Cube what do you feel about coming to play for the greatest club in the world?
Power Cube: 'Err! I'd love to but I play in the same position as their best player I am worried I wouldn't ever see the pitch'.
Klopp: 'Ya, Ya, Ha, Ha, I have a plan but you will have to be up for a challenge'.
Power Cube: 'I've always been up for a challenge, fought for a spot against Ribery and Robben at big boss German Club and played at Stoke for 2 years with a bunch of woeful losers'.
Klopp: 'Not cool let Kloppy give you a nice hug'
Power Cube: 'Oh! I love LFC when can I sign?'
Klopp with bid cheesy grin and thumbs up sign, 'come into Mikeys office he has a photogenic pen and a lovely desk with papers on it'
 

mattyhurst

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#96
The assumption from other fans at the football club this weekend was that it's a no lose situation. That's how I see it.
 

Limiescouse

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#99
Like many here, I've seen quite a lot of Shakiri when BR tried to bring him, and after that With Stoke and now the world cup. Here is the quedtion, in the CL final last season Real were able to bring Bale from the bench, our option now is Shakiri. Does he look like any where near that level ?
If he would have cost 40mil, would you still think it was a good deal. He is a bargain because he is cheap, not because he is that good.

Young players need chances to prove themselves, if there are 3 senior players for a position, than the 4th option never gets to play. There is only so much time a player is willing to wait to get a shot.
The extension of that argument is that Ben Woodburn or Harry Wilson, despite Klopp seemingly thinking they are still not ready, would be more equivalent to Bale? The former criticism doesn't connect with the latter.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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The extension of that argument is that Ben Woodburn or Harry Wilson, despite Klopp seemingly thinking they are still not ready, would be more equivalent to Bale? The former criticism doesn't connect with the latter.
No I get it, he's saying that if the difference from, in this example, Bale to Shaqiri is still so stark then why bother when it has a negative impact on the likes of Wilson and Woodburn (both going on loan now). It's similar to what I said weeks ago about preferring to either use the options we have or go all-out for top quality, as while the latter means the kids still go out on loan at least you've ended up with a top player.

But I'm still watching with interest our keeper search. If we do end up signing Fekir and Alisson before the end of the window, and signing Shaqiri made the latter possible in particular, then I'll be happy with that.
 

mattyhurst

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If luck had been with us we could have brought a fit Ox or a fit Lallana on... we couldn't, our luck ran out in a cruel way, how many teams can bring on Bale as a substitute, has anyone bar Man City got that kind of quality in our league? and even do they?
 

Limiescouse

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No I get it, he's saying that if the difference from, in this example, Bale to Shaqiri is still so stark then why bother when it has a negative impact on the likes of Wilson and Woodburn (both going on loan now). It's similar to what I said weeks ago about preferring to either use the options we have or go all-out for top quality, as while the latter means the kids still go out on loan at least you've ended up with a top player.
So, if we're not good enough to beat Real, we should just concede and instead play a bunch of players who know cannot compete at that level? These arguments are predicated on the idea that the likes of Wilson and Woodburn are currently good enough that if they stayed at Melwood they would force Klopp's hand and get games. Klopp has demonstrated his willingness to put his faith in young players before, and so the fact he is sending these two out suggests the issue is not one of philosophy, but of the players themselves not yet being ready.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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So, if we're not good enough to beat Real, we should just concede and instead play a bunch of players who know cannot compete at that level? These arguments are predicated on the idea that the likes of Wilson and Woodburn are currently good enough that if they stayed at Melwood they would force Klopp's hand and get games. Klopp has demonstrated his willingness to put his faith in young players before, and so the fact he is sending these two out suggests the issue is not one of philosophy, but of the players themselves not yet being ready.
For me we're getting perilously close to the bad side of Rafa's reign when the first-team was packed full of middling senior players blocking all paths to the first team. As I said, either sign quality or show some faith in the development side. I don't buy in to the argument of 'Wilson etc have to show in training they deserve a spot', because they're hardly able to do that when they're not at the club.
 

RedSeven

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For me we're getting perilously close to the bad side of Rafa's reign when the first-team was packed full of middling senior players blocking all paths to the first team. As I said, either sign quality or show some faith in the development side. I don't buy in to the argument of 'Wilson etc have to show in training they deserve a spot', because they're hardly able to do that when they're not at the club.
Maybe Klopp thinks Shaqiri is quality and that Wilson isn't ready yet/not good enough.
 

RedSeven

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Presumably he does, but is no-one allowed to disagree with that assessment?
Of course you are but other than VVD, who else have we bought into this squad who was deemed quality of the likes of Bale before we were interested in them.
There's not many supporters who were overly familiar with the likes of Kieta,Fabinho or even Firmino and many others questioned our interest in Salah and Ox when first linked.Mane was about the only guy were the concensus of the majority was that he was very good but no one was anywhere near the type of status as a a bale etc.
Our thing has been and continues to be getting that player who most see as that level below or not quite there and bringing them to that level of quality you talk about.A couple of occasions it hasn't worked out but we have had success with a few others.


Many thought Ox was a bit too expensive given he has some injury issues,wasn't first choice at arsenal and had only 1 yr left on his contract.Salah was a failure at Chelsea according to some.

As we're all entitled to opinions,like other players we've bought,I think if Klopp can get Shaqiri working at his best,he won't be seen as back up to the front 3 but in competition with those front players and that can only be good for the club and the cheap price will be seen as the bonus and not the reason for bringing him in.

In 12 mths time even you may referring to him as quality.
 

geebo

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Presumably he does, but is no-one allowed to disagree with that assessment?
sure you can disagree, but the status of Klopp at the moment, and his experience with giving youth a break and the fact he sees these players in action everyday puts him 8in a mfar superior position to hudge- I dont see you having much impact on fans with your argument.

------------

Shaq = 13? mil, wages 40,000,60,000?
Bale = 113 mil?, wages 160,000 ?

Bale is an over extravagance for this club, it makes much more sense getting Shaq.
An additional argument is also, would Bale take a wage cut? would Bale swap bench warming in Madrid for bench warming in Liverpool? I dont think so.
 

Prolix

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For me we're getting perilously close to the bad side of Rafa's reign when the first-team was packed full of middling senior players blocking all paths to the first team.
What? Who?

Edit: And for that matter, which academy players from Rafa's era went on to be successful at a high level somewhere other than Liverpool?
 

Zinedine Biscan

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I don't know what to say then.
Well, it does distort the point somewhat if you only quote part of what I said. It should have been clear I meant they are unable to do that if they're not at the club to do so.

Prior to Shaqiri's arrival I was repeatedly told that signing him wouldn't mean W&W would be immediately farmed out, that there'd be plenty of minutes next season for them too and that if they're all that they'll have the opportunity to prove themselves in training. Egg all over my face.
 

RedSeven

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Well, it does distort the point somewhat if you only quote part of what I said. It should have been clear I meant they are unable to do that if they're not at the club to do so.

Prior to Shaqiri's arrival I was repeatedly told that signing him wouldn't mean W&W would be immediately farmed out, that there'd be plenty of minutes next season for them too and that if they're all that they'll have the opportunity to prove themselves in training. Egg all over my face.
They were farmed out last year when Shaqiri wasn't here and we were short of players.The decision to loan the out would have been made prior too his arrival
 

Limiescouse

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Well, it does distort the point somewhat if you only quote part of what I said. It should have been clear I meant they are unable to do that if they're not at the club to do so.
But they are. They are there during pre-season, and that gives Klopp more exposure to the lads than you get with your wife for probably a whole year (not meant in a snarky way).

As for the rest of the post, what other people said to you has nothing to do with my argument.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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They were farmed out last year when Shaqiri wasn't here and we were short of players.The decision to loan the out would have been made prior too his arrival
Where was Woodburn farmed to last year? Wilson only spent the last few months at Hull, also.
 



Zinedine Biscan

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But they are. They are there during pre-season, and that gives Klopp more exposure to the lads than you get with your wife for probably a whole year (not meant in a snarky way).

As for the rest of the post, what other people said to you has nothing to do with my argument.
Wilson must be a dog in training then if he's sent on loan on the back of that after having been one of, if not the most impressive players in our opening couple of friendlies.
 

jgw_geneseo

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Wilson was also with the U23s last year, not sure where he was training last year. He might not have gotten that much exposure to Klopp, although I'm not sure which group he would have been training with.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Wilson was also with the U23s last year, not sure where he was training last year. He might not have gotten that much exposure to Klopp, although I'm not sure which group he would have been training with.
Many of the most talented youngsters get called up to train with the senior squad at least a few times a week as I understand it. I'd be very surprised if Woodburn was not a regular part of that group when fit.
 

jgw_geneseo

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Yeah, I knew Woodburn was with the first team squad, but Wilson was captain of U23s and seemed to play for them much more than Woodburn did, which is why I'm not sure where Wilson would have done most of his training.
 

Limiescouse

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Wilson must be a dog in training then if he's sent on loan on the back of that after having been one of, if not the most impressive players in our opening couple of friendlies.
Truthfully, performances against sides not at the level that even our less talented kids will end up playing at is not how Klopp is going to judge them.