Your thoughts on the season to come - Prediction time

FilthyBloke

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
655
Likes
837
You're living in an alternate universe where pigs have wings....
There is also another alternate universe where man united are the same amount of points from us at the top than they are from the relegation zone.
If that doesn’t cheer people up I’m not sure what will.
 

Danny_

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
1,432
Likes
706
Hey I was just trying to cheer @Danny_ up!

But realistically we could be top of the table by a couple of points after next round of games.
Hey, I'm fine! :well done: We are joint top of the league right now. Just being realistic. I think we get 2nd this season which would not be bad at all. City just look too good and they have De Bruyne coming back but things can change quickly. What's annoying is that if our front 3 were playing like they did last season, we would still have a chance, even against these monsters. But so far, that hasn't happened.
 

RedForever2014

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
3,438
Likes
3,052
It's still too early to fully judge what the current results and performances actually mean.

We're winning, but only just.

Have we just yet to get going or has something fundamentally changed, perhaps due to the loss of Coutinho and absence of Oxlade? For all his faults, do we miss Can in central midfield? Is the world cup hangover going to affect the forwards all season? Is Buvac missed? Will the new boys settle this season or will it be next season by the time they do?

Keita is a terrible disappointment so far. For me he looks like a rabbit in headlights, whether that be in relation to the size of the club dawning on him, the nature of the league, or the shock of a new country. People talk about players having been top Performers in the Bundesliga, but the same was said of Karius and Matip. He will improve, but the lesson people should learn is that selling a top performer and reinvesting in someone new isn't a seamless process. It's transitional.

I have long argued that selling your best players at their peak value (aged 28 or younger), means that the side never hits its peak. You're always missing something, always just a step or two away.

Will we trim out the squad in January, as we did last January, or will we strengthen further?

What are our issues?

We have a world class keeper. No issue there.

We have a world class centre back, other very good centre backs, and good full backs. But our full backs don't have the balance in terms of attack and defence except for Robertson (they're either or). Klopp is playing Gomez at right back because our best defenders are VVD, Gomez, Lovren and Robertson.

Midfield is a big issue. I would argue none of them are world class and most of them are workmanlike players. We have players who can play 10/attacking midfield (Lallana/Shaqiri), but without Coutinho and Oxlade they're really just players who can do that job against sides who aren't top class. We definitely lack the world class creative force that City and Chelsea and the top European sides have in that area of the pitch.

We shall wait and see what happens with our forwards. We definitely don't have the 4th option right up at their level to rotate in.

Our current form would yield 97 points over a season, and with the points we have in the bag a third top four finish in a row is statistically increasing in likelihood with every passing week, especially if our home form stays strong.

I think the commentator said yesterday we've lost 3 PL matches in the last 37, which is title challenging form.

But we can all see the issue on the pitch and for me the absence of a top quality play maker will make the difference in the end in terms of any title challenge.

I think a lot depends on the Champions League. If we crash out at the group stage, after getting to the final last season, I think it will hit us hard. Instead of looking forward to the latter rounds from end February onwards, sustained through the winter months by it, all the players will have to look forward to is the ignominy of going from finalists to Europa League Thursday night football in less than a year.

My prediction based on how things are, is that we'll come third in the PL, maybe second if Chelsea fall off due to Thursday night football from February (if we don't have the same). I think we might keep up with City for a while, but I fear that during the run in we'll stutter.

The FA Cup is a lottery, it's totally draw related. I have no prediction there.

The CL? I'm going to go for progression to the last 16 after a tense night against Napoli.

The second half of the season depends on January transfer activity. IMO we need a boost, we did it last season with VVD, even though we trimmed out depth and lost Coutinho. This time we need an attacking midfielder.

You can use tactics and mental strength to have a whole greater than the sum of the parts, or offset weaknesses, but in the end quality tells.

At some point we have to be strong all over the pitch, and if we don't get to that position, and continue to fall short, that then leads to your top players losing heart and leaving.

I really am looking for the club to make a move in the transfer market to try and sure up this season's progression.
 
Last edited:

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
18,339
Likes
30,471
It's still too early to fully judge what the current results and performances actually mean.

We're winning, but only just.

Have we just yet to get going or has something fundamentally changed, perhaps due to the loss of Coutinho and absence of Oxlade? For all his faults, do we miss Can in central midfield? Is the world cup hangover going to affect the forwards all season? Is Buvac missed? Will the new boys settle this season or will it be next season by the time they do?

Keita is a terrible disappointment so far. For me he looks like a rabbit in headlights, whether that be in relation to the size of the club dawning on him, the nature of the league, or the shock of a new country. People talk about players having been top Performers in the Bundesliga, but the same was said of Karius and Matip. He will improve, but the lesson people should learn is that selling a top performer and reinvesting in someone new isn't a seamless process. It's transitional.

I have long argued that selling your best players at their peak value (aged 28 or younger), means that the side never hits its peak. You're always missing something, always just a step or two away.

Will we trim out the squad in January, as we did last January, or will we strengthen further?

What are our issues?

We have a world class keeper. No issue there.

We have a world class centre back, other very good centre backs, and good full backs. But our full backs don't have the balance in terms of attack and defence except for Robertson (they're either or). Klopp is playing Gomez at right back because our best defenders are VVD, Gomez, Lovren and Robertson.

Midfield is a big issue. I would argue none of them are world class and most of them are workmanlike players. We have players who can play 10/attacking midfield (Lallana/Shaqiri), but without Coutinho and Oxlade they're really just players who can do that job against sides who aren't top class. We definitely lack the world class creative force that City and Chelsea and the top European sides have in that area of the pitch.

We shall wait and see what happens with our forwards. We definitely don't have the 4th option right up at their level to rotate in.

Our current form would yield 97 points over a season, and with the points we have in the bag a third top four finish in a row is statistically increasing in likelihood with every passing week, especially if our home form stays strong.

I think the commentator said yesterday we've lost 3 PL matches in the last 37, which is title challenging form.

But we can all see the issue on the pitch and for me the absence of a top quality play maker will make the difference in the end in terms of any title challenge.

I think a lot depends on the Champions League. If we crash out at the group stage, after getting to the final last season, I think it will hit us hard. Instead of looking forward to the latter rounds from end February onwards, sustained through the winter months by it, all the players will have to look forward to is the ignominy of going from finalists to Europa League Thursday night football in less than a year.

My prediction based on how things are, is that we'll come third in the PL, maybe second if Chelsea fall off due to Thursday night football from February (if we don't have the same). I think we might keep up with City for a while, but I fear that during the run in we'll stutter.

The FA Cup is a lottery, it's totally draw related. I have no prediction there.

The CL? I'm going to go for progression to the last 16 after a tense night against Napoli.

The second half of the season depends on January transfer activity. IMO we need a boost, we did it last season with VVD, even though we trimmed out depth and lost Coutinho. This time we need an attacking midfielder.

You can use tactics and mental strength to have a whole greater than the sum of the parts, or offset weaknesses, but in the end quality tells.

At some point we have to be strong all over the pitch, and if we don't get to that position, and continue to fall short, that then leads to your top players losing heart and leaving.

I really am looking for the club to make a move in the transfer market to try and sure up this season's progression.
After you were certain we wouldn’t qualify for the CL without Coutinho, I’m happy for you to keep predicting we fall short lol
 

RedForever2014

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
3,438
Likes
3,052
For me the obvious gap in our squad is in the central attacking midfield area. A top class player in that department links midfield and attack, controls the match and creates chances against all levels of opposition.

Our performances this season are largely down that player being missing, having sold Coutinho and then seeing Oxlade get injured.

The squad is now equipped, due to our better defence and greater depth in midfield/attack, to do better more consistently against middle to lower level sides. We are also fighting our way to better results against the better sides.

At the moment we're on course for 15 points from 30 against the better sides and more points from matches against other sides.

Problem is, that's not going to be enough if the others around us continue to win also. I think top 4 will take 80+ points this season.

Our attack needs that creative force behind them unless they are so in form that they can do it all themselves.

People cite last season, but last season they had Coutinho or Oxlade behind them until the last few weeks.

After Oxlade got injured against Roma, we dropped a lot of points in the PL and lost both remaining CL matches. People forget that.

Unless Keita or Shaqiri can deliver at the level of Coutinho or Oxlade pretty soon, or we sign a quality attacking midfielder in January, I don't see us winning the league or CL.

That for me is the biggest issue, though I also think Klopp causes some poor results due to team selections and substitutions.

It's clear that we suffer from poor officiating, from disallowed goals and penalty decisions to inconsistencies in fouls being awarded for similar incidents. As per that study in the summer, we're probably losing 5 to 8 points through that.

That in itself is probably going to scupper any realistic prospect of the PL, but we could take steps to increase our odds by going the extra mile in the transfer market.

Not signing that Coutinho replacement, especially in light of Oxlade's injury, is for me going to cost us. I think we'd have won at Chelsea or Arsenal with Coutinho or Oxlade in the side.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
14,695
Likes
25,549
Shaqiri is already delivering at a (creative) level higher than Chamberlain. He isn't playing as a #10 though, and Coutinho didn't either for the most part with most of his best performances coming from the left.

Firmino's lack of form due is more of a concern for me, whether it be due to fitness or the fact we're playing with a less intense style of play this season which suits him less.
 

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
7,764
Likes
4,633
We will finish top3, and I predict 7 lost points due to officiating over the season. Currently at 2points
 

Nikola

Mediocre outcome is the probable outcome.
Admin
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
17,507
Likes
10,667
I have to admit that I've never felt this strange about a season Liverpool are having. One deserved defeat each in Champions League and League Cup, draws only against in-form Man City at home and in-form Chelsea and in-form Arsenal away, sitting third after eleven weeks, only two points behind league's and perhaps Europe's best team. I should be bursting with joy, having supported Liverpool throughout their probably worst spell of past fifty years when it comes to winning (or actually not winning) trophies, but I have to admit that I'm feeling a bit confused, for want of a better word.

I think this confusion stems from Man City's and Chelsea's exploits, to be honest, and partly due to Arsenal's. Is it possible that Liverpool were in such poor state that it took Klopp three whole years to get them to this level?! That's the thought that's constantly been going through my mind for past few weeks, especially looking at Arsenal's resurgence. Obviously, Liverpool squad that Klopp inherited was patchy and unbalanced but is it really that much worse than the one Emery inherited? I can't believe that he has improved them so much in such a short amount of time. Essentially, had they beaten Man City and all the other results remained the same, they would have been level on points with them.

Guardiola is an amazing, extraordinary manager but he has still spent GDP of a small country to make Man City what they are - the fear factor, though, stems only from him. Chelsea have spent big, too, but Sarri has so quickly removed all the reasons I thought they won't have the depth to fight for the title (mainly the fact that their players were used to a more defensive setup, that their managers imposed a rigid structure and were masters of exploiting opponent's mistakes and that their bench didn't look so good with the likes of Luiz, Barkley and Morata so out of form).

This is what's been doing my head in for weeks. It's as though everything else easily comes together to all Liverpool's rivals and only Liverpool have to suffer, to build slowly, go two steps forward, at least one back, wheel and deal to get to a level where they can compete, only for other clubs to make a good managerial appointment and/or buy three proper players and remain a class above Liverpool in terms of results, not to mention trophies. I have to admit that I haven't felt this envious of other clubs' fortunes since 2009 and that emotionally draining title challenge. I mean, Liverpool have two players who got relegated plus one former Sunderland player in their starting XI, whereas you'd be hard pressed to find a player in Man City match day squad who has come in during last three summer windows and has cost less than 30 million pounds.

However, my train of thought led me to another place from this envy station and that is the very fact that I feel disappointed after, for example, drawing with Man City in a match where they missed a late penalty, or drawing away to outstanding Chelsea and Arsenal sides. I genuinely haven't felt like this since that 2008/09 season, looking up the table rather than looking down it (OK, I'm still checking the distance to fifth place but that's become a natural reflex for me). So, maybe I am being ungrateful but on the other hand, it's only fair that I'm looking for my club to win trophies.

Looking at this Liverpool side, I think it's not unfair to say that it would have probably won the title in five out of last ten PL seasons. But that's Liverpool we all know and love, a day late and a dollar short. I'm feeling bad for Klopp, though, he found himself having to rebuild a gigantic club while rivals were, for the most part, buying success. I've said it before and I'll say it again, he and everyone associated with the club will have to be very patient if Liverpool are to have any success. I've already prepared myself for another season without a trophy but if club continues to add more Van Dijks, Robinsons and Salahs, to promote more Alexander-Arnolds and Gomez, while not losing players they want to keep, all of us are in for a nice ride. Let's hope Klopp and his lads can wait some more. Funnily enough, there's a song called "Fly" on new Alice In Chains record, it perfectly describes what I'm trying to say, someone should play it to Klopp!
 

Gone Kloppo

Formerly known as Ʒan
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
1,667
Likes
2,693
I have to admit that I've never felt this strange about a season Liverpool are having. One deserved defeat each in Champions League and League Cup, draws only against in-form Man City at home and in-form Chelsea and in-form Arsenal away, sitting third after eleven weeks, only two points behind league's and perhaps Europe's best team. I should be bursting with joy, having supported Liverpool throughout their probably worst spell of past fifty years when it comes to winning (or actually not winning) trophies, but I have to admit that I'm feeling a bit confused, for want of a better word.

I think this confusion stems from Man City's and Chelsea's exploits, to be honest, and partly due to Arsenal's. Is it possible that Liverpool were in such poor state that it took Klopp three whole years to get them to this level?! That's the thought that's constantly been going through my mind for past few weeks, especially looking at Arsenal's resurgence. Obviously, Liverpool squad that Klopp inherited was patchy and unbalanced but is it really that much worse than the one Emery inherited? I can't believe that he has improved them so much in such a short amount of time. Essentially, had they beaten Man City and all the other results remained the same, they would have been level on points with them.

Guardiola is an amazing, extraordinary manager but he has still spent GDP of a small country to make Man City what they are - the fear factor, though, stems only from him. Chelsea have spent big, too, but Sarri has so quickly removed all the reasons I thought they won't have the depth to fight for the title (mainly the fact that their players were used to a more defensive setup, that their managers imposed a rigid structure and were masters of exploiting opponent's mistakes and that their bench didn't look so good with the likes of Luiz, Barkley and Morata so out of form).

1. City has been a real title challenger for nigh on a decade. Chelsea far longer. Both have had outlier seasons (both in 15/16) but on the whole they have been at the very top over that long period.

2. League titles are about consistently building stronger and stronger points totals over each season until hopefully luck goes your way and you pinch a title. Chelsea had a pretty rotten period after the 2010/11 season, where they got 6th in 11/12 with a points total of only 64. Then they were 3rd the following two years with first a points total of 75, then 82 before winning the league again in 2014/15 with 87 points. Then another dip with only 50 points the following year (their catastrophe year) before again winning the title with 93 points. There is a pretty consistent correlation between the buildup years to a title with Chelsea. Even the year Mourinho joined in 04/05 was on the back of Chelsea coming second with a points total of 79. Certainly the actual playing squad changed a lot over those 15+ years but I guess you could say they always had a stable, strong squad.

3. City are similar though they are working with an even stronger base. Their points total with the exception of 15/16 could have won the title in many other years. So they have been incredibly strong and consistent since their title in 11/12. Again, they worked their way into that 89 point title in 11/12 with 5th (67pts), then 3rd (71pts) before winning their first title. Then second with 78 points before winning the title again with 86 points. Then 2nd with 79 points, 4th with 66 points, before building momentum again with 3rd (78pts) in Pep's first year then 100 points and the title last year. So they are pretty much Chelsea on steroids in terms of recovering from a post title season dip and mounting a real challenge again.

4. Our points table pre-16/17 was abysmal. No question 13/14 was a Leicester-style flash in the pan. We finally have put two seasons together with a respectable points total but even they have been lower than 6 out of City's last 7 points totals. And just remember they have won 'only' 3 titles in that 7 year period. I don't think fans realise how far back Klopp started on the rebuild. Pep inherited a team that, although had come off their poorest season in half a decade, had been 'there-abouts' for a number of years.

5. I have been saying like a broken record before the season started that we are probably still a season away from winning a title. I know you don't need to build into a title winning season and it can come off the back of a 75 point total the previous year like we've just done, but being consistently strong takes more of the luck element out of it. We can't control what City do, so we need to aim for as many points as possible but try to break the 80 point barrier at least and then go above and beyond the following season. Anything can happen (still) but we haven't, imo, actually challenged yet under Klopp. 76 and 75 points in the last two seasons is respectable but no way would I consider them title-challenging points totals. We would do well with another consistent season with our newest players further bedded in and we can raise the bar next season.

6. imo, unless a team can 'do a Leicester' then I think you need to be at the top of the game for a consistent period and wait in line. Luck needs to be on your side (ie other teams not doing so well and everything going right for you) to win titles. That's just the way it is. But by being consistently at the top you are ensuring that if other teams do slip then you are there to pounce. City do look unstoppable. But maybe they have a poor second half to the season and leave the door slightly ajar? Certainly that would be very fortunate for us considering we haven't been in a sustained title challenge before. But if they don't slip up this year, maybe the hunger and appetite for titles won't be there next year? Klopp has now put us in a position where it is very plausible that we will be the best team at least once over the next 5 years.

7. I think the constant drumming from the media before the season even started about our title chances (I wouldn't be surprised if a reporter asked what route the open top bus would be taking..) was at a ludicrous level. Certainly I think Klopp is happy that he doesn't get asked about the title first question every pre/post match press conference now. But I don't think that talk did the fans any favours. Titles aren't just about having a super squad but also the momentum the team has within the season/luck etc. If the title was handed to the best squad every year than City would win it most years but we can see that's not always the case.

8. Only thing I want to say, and my only worry in terms of showing patience to wait until its our 'fookin year' lol, is our ability to keep our best players. We know about Klopp's pull, but we are also one Firmino/Salah/Mane transfer away from having to rejig our forward line. I think we have a far stronger overall squad than City for instance, but our list of quality forwards designed for our style of play is spartan to say the least. We really need to be proactive and get another player for our forward position, and move heaven and earth to keep the players that we have.
 
Last edited:

Danny_

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
1,432
Likes
706
I have to admit that I've never felt this strange about a season Liverpool are having. One deserved defeat each in Champions League and League Cup, draws only against in-form Man City at home and in-form Chelsea and in-form Arsenal away, sitting third after eleven weeks, only two points behind league's and perhaps Europe's best team. I should be bursting with joy, having supported Liverpool throughout their probably worst spell of past fifty years when it comes to winning (or actually not winning) trophies, but I have to admit that I'm feeling a bit confused, for want of a better word.

I think this confusion stems from Man City's and Chelsea's exploits, to be honest, and partly due to Arsenal's. Is it possible that Liverpool were in such poor state that it took Klopp three whole years to get them to this level?! That's the thought that's constantly been going through my mind for past few weeks, especially looking at Arsenal's resurgence. Obviously, Liverpool squad that Klopp inherited was patchy and unbalanced but is it really that much worse than the one Emery inherited? I can't believe that he has improved them so much in such a short amount of time. Essentially, had they beaten Man City and all the other results remained the same, they would have been level on points with them.

Guardiola is an amazing, extraordinary manager but he has still spent GDP of a small country to make Man City what they are - the fear factor, though, stems only from him. Chelsea have spent big, too, but Sarri has so quickly removed all the reasons I thought they won't have the depth to fight for the title (mainly the fact that their players were used to a more defensive setup, that their managers imposed a rigid structure and were masters of exploiting opponent's mistakes and that their bench didn't look so good with the likes of Luiz, Barkley and Morata so out of form).

This is what's been doing my head in for weeks. It's as though everything else easily comes together to all Liverpool's rivals and only Liverpool have to suffer, to build slowly, go two steps forward, at least one back, wheel and deal to get to a level where they can compete, only for other clubs to make a good managerial appointment and/or buy three proper players and remain a class above Liverpool in terms of results, not to mention trophies. I have to admit that I haven't felt this envious of other clubs' fortunes since 2009 and that emotionally draining title challenge. I mean, Liverpool have two players who got relegated plus one former Sunderland player in their starting XI, whereas you'd be hard pressed to find a player in Man City match day squad who has come in during last three summer windows and has cost less than 30 million pounds.

However, my train of thought led me to another place from this envy station and that is the very fact that I feel disappointed after, for example, drawing with Man City in a match where they missed a late penalty, or drawing away to outstanding Chelsea and Arsenal sides. I genuinely haven't felt like this since that 2008/09 season, looking up the table rather than looking down it (OK, I'm still checking the distance to fifth place but that's become a natural reflex for me). So, maybe I am being ungrateful but on the other hand, it's only fair that I'm looking for my club to win trophies.

Looking at this Liverpool side, I think it's not unfair to say that it would have probably won the title in five out of last ten PL seasons. But that's Liverpool we all know and love, a day late and a dollar short. I'm feeling bad for Klopp, though, he found himself having to rebuild a gigantic club while rivals were, for the most part, buying success. I've said it before and I'll say it again, he and everyone associated with the club will have to be very patient if Liverpool are to have any success. I've already prepared myself for another season without a trophy but if club continues to add more Van Dijks, Robinsons and Salahs, to promote more Alexander-Arnolds and Gomez, while not losing players they want to keep, all of us are in for a nice ride. Let's hope Klopp and his lads can wait some more. Funnily enough, there's a song called "Fly" on new Alice In Chains record, it perfectly describes what I'm trying to say, someone should play it to Klopp!
We are not too far off City but they are still a step ahead. The problem is that we lost Coutinho. If we still had him, or even if Ox had not got injured, we might be able to compete with them. But we are about one player short in attack and we have no depth at the FB position. If Robinson gets injured, we are screwed. On the right side, TAA is not good enough yet IMHO. He will be good enough in the future but he should not be our first choice right now. CM remains an open question - will Keita step up and show us the player we all thought we were getting? Fabinho looks like a very good player but maybe, not a great player. It is too early to make that judgment though.

City have Sterling, Silva, Aguerro and Sane up front with the likes of Mahrez on the bench. We have the fab 3 up front and then a crocked Sturridge and a good, but not great player, in Shaqiri. We are still one or two world class players off their level. But, they have spent a huge amount of money. And it isn't just that - their wage bill is well above ours. We are fighting against oil baron money and while it is not impossible to beat those odds, the deck is always stacked against us. I think Klopp will win the league some time in the next 3 years (assuming our owners don't act like idiots and sack him or some crap like that). I just don't think it is going to be this season. City are just too good and unless they have a massive injury crisis, I can't see anyone else winning the title. :-(