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Your thoughts on the season to come - Prediction time

Quicksand

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Nov 16, 2016
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Its way too early to speak of choking. What happened vs Leicester was a rin of the mill game in a title season, all potential winners experience them. The thing is, it can be explained. Injuries, illness, poor individual displays......all stuff that can and will be improved.
Panic sets in over the last few games, not now. No need.
 

Quicksand

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It’s a bit of a running joke. A few pages back in this thread @cynicaloldgit was claiming there was a conspiracy by the FA to stop us winning the league so no point in getting our hopes up. Other posters routinely claim refs are biased, corrupt etc to stop us winning. I think it’s all paranoid nonsense but no doubt city will get a dubious penalty in the last seconds of stoppage time on the last day of the season to win on goal differance and I will look very stupid.
Not wishing to discuss what is described as "paranoid nonsense", but there is a blindness to the obvious at work here.
I know Jaffod has been described, amongst others as a conspiracy theorist, and I am probably being placed in that camp, but there are factors at play that need to be recognised as the season progresses.
I have had your attempt at comedy already in the Leicester thread, so I am a bit dubious about any engagement with you on this, but yours is the post that requires addressing. Perhaps my previous attempt on this was awkward and deserved your attempt at humour, so hopefully this clarifies....If
Anyway.....
Its going to be a bit more difficult for Liverpool to win the league, as the amount of bias will ramp up the nearer we get to the finish line. The evidence of 12 points lost from poor decisions last season isnt enough to convince people that a bias exists, then fair enough. The obvious SKY/ Media demonisation of Salah as a diver isnt enough, fair enough again. The amount of decisions that go the way of City...Agueros third goal yesterday should gave been disallowed, not enough?
The amount of crucial decisions against Liverpool, two major ones vs Leicester, not enough?
Add them together and there has to be some recognition of the hill we have to overcome. I am not saying that the FA have met and decided Liverpool are not to win the league, or that refs are instructed against us.....but, factors such as the SKY and Murdoch agenda against Liverpool is pervasive and seeps into the consciousness of officials. Keep saying Harry Kane is a hero and he becomes a hero. Keep saying Salah is a diver and suddenley he gets nothing from referees. The Keita decision last week was bankrupt of any sense of fairness, and cannot be simply explained as one of these things. I am not suggesting corruption, but think there is an obvious mindset at work.
Dont give a penalty at Anfield becayse SKY/BT et al will decimate your decision. No decision is much better than a controversial one.
Murdochs power base in the media will always be in favour of whoever is up against Liverpool. And that mentality creeps into the rest of the game.
No conspiracy theory.
No victim mentality.
If we win the league, and I think we will, it wont be premised on any favouritism by the powers that be.
 

sms1986

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Not wishing to discuss what is described as "paranoid nonsense", but there is a blindness to the obvious at work here.
I know Jaffod has been described, amongst others as a conspiracy theorist, and I am probably being placed in that camp, but there are factors at play that need to be recognised as the season progresses.
I have had your attempt at comedy already in the Leicester thread, so I am a bit dubious about any engagement with you on this, but yours is the post that requires addressing. Perhaps my previous attempt on this was awkward and deserved your attempt at humour, so hopefully this clarifies....If
Anyway.....
Its going to be a bit more difficult for Liverpool to win the league, as the amount of bias will ramp up the nearer we get to the finish line. The evidence of 12 points lost from poor decisions last season isnt enough to convince people that a bias exists, then fair enough. The obvious SKY/ Media demonisation of Salah as a diver isnt enough, fair enough again. The amount of decisions that go the way of City...Agueros third goal yesterday should gave been disallowed, not enough?
The amount of crucial decisions against Liverpool, two major ones vs Leicester, not enough?
Add them together and there has to be some recognition of the hill we have to overcome. I am not saying that the FA have met and decided Liverpool are not to win the league, or that refs are instructed against us.....but, factors such as the SKY and Murdoch agenda against Liverpool is pervasive and seeps into the consciousness of officials. Keep saying Harry Kane is a hero and he becomes a hero. Keep saying Salah is a diver and suddenley he gets nothing from referees. The Keita decision last week was bankrupt of any sense of fairness, and cannot be simply explained as one of these things. I am not suggesting corruption, but think there is an obvious mindset at work.
Dont give a penalty at Anfield becayse SKY/BT et al will decimate your decision. No decision is much better than a controversial one.
Murdochs power base in the media will always be in favour of whoever is up against Liverpool. And that mentality creeps into the rest of the game.
No conspiracy theory.
No victim mentality.
If we win the league, and I think we will, it wont be premised on any favouritism by the powers that be.
So why do some rival fans think of us as media darlings? Why do some rival fans think the media is against their club as well?

Nobody disagrees that Murdoch is a tumour on the face of British media, but other fans can claim supposed media bias against their club as well. You can go on Blue Moon and see City fans saying things similar to you.
 

Quicksand

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So why do some rival fans think of us as media darlings? Why do some rival fans think the media is against their club as well?

Nobody disagrees that Murdoch is a tumour on the face of British media, but other fans can claim supposed media bias against their club as well. You can go on Blue Moon and see City fans saying things similar to you.
I am not really bothered by what other clubs supporters think though. I am more concerned with what I think is obvious, that a pervasive bias exists against Liverpool, in certain quarters, and that the bias can influence occasionally crucial decisions. Other clubs only see us as media darlings when we are challenging. Amazing coincidence or a sense of worry on their behalf?
 

sms1986

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I am not really bothered by what other clubs supporters think though. I am more concerned with what I think is obvious, that a pervasive bias exists against Liverpool, in certain quarters, and that the bias can influence occasionally crucial decisions. Other clubs only see us as media darlings when we are challenging. Amazing coincidence or a sense of worry on their behalf?
But to them, they think there is an obvious pervasive bias against their own clubs as well and they probably have as much evidence for that as you do. There's probably a bias against every club to some extent.
 

sms1986

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I think the narrative that we're media darlings has no basis or evidence at all,it's utterly nonsensical,
No club is, despite what fans of various clubs think. The media don't particularly care for any one club, they do care about getting attention from an audience which often means sensationalist drivel.
 

jaffod

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So why do some rival fans think of us as media darlings? Why do some rival fans think the media is against their club as well?

Nobody disagrees that Murdoch is a tumour on the face of British media, but other fans can claim supposed media bias against their club as well. You can go on Blue Moon and see City fans saying things similar to you.
You can understand their point. Pick up any newspaper or turn on SKY Sports etc and all they ever talk about is City's abuse of FFP and their owners' abuse of human rights. I'm sick of hearing about it tbh.
 

Gone Kloppo

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Prediction time? If we don't win the league we are going to have 3 solid months of how it's all the referee's fault, and that we should open up an enquiry to the FA's bias against us. There won't be a single mention about the likely extremely high points tally for the top 3 teams, and that second place is likely going to break records let alone first place.
 

Quicksand

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You can understand their point. Pick up any newspaper or turn on SKY Sports etc and all they ever talk about is City's abuse of FFP and their owners' abuse of human rights. I'm sick of hearing about it tbh.
I kniw that there is a deep sense of irony in your post, but the FFP situation is worth examining. Wonder why the richest club with the biggest abuse of FFP isnt called to heel?
Like Debbie McGee being asked what attracted her to the millionaire Paul Daniels, money talks.
 

Quicksand

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Prediction time? If we don't win the league we are going to have 3 solid months of how it's all the referee's fault, and that we should open up an enquiry to the FA's bias against us. There won't be a single mention about the likely extremely high points tally for the top 3 teams, and that second place is likely going to break records let alone first place.
I think you are conveniently missing the point. When we win the league it will be diwn to skill and endurance, we wont be getting the same favours the likes of Kane et al will get.
 

sms1986

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You can understand their point. Pick up any newspaper or turn on SKY Sports etc and all they ever talk about is City's abuse of FFP and their owners' abuse of human rights. I'm sick of hearing about it tbh.
It's possible that they ignore that stuff in order to help City, but what's more likely is that they don't talk about that stuff because it doesn't get people paying attention to them. Think about your average football fan (I'm not saying they're stupid or don't care about important issues), he or she is much more likely to pay attention to less substantial things. Why do you think Twitter is so heavily utilised by the media and football in general? Because it allows for 24/7 news and opinions and 99% of the time, it's stuff that the average football fan (and therefore, the media) cares about.
 

jaffod

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It's possible that they ignore that stuff in order to help City, but what's more likely is that they don't talk about that stuff because it doesn't get people paying attention to them. Think about your average football fan (I'm not saying they're stupid or don't care about important issues), he or she is much more likely to pay attention to less substantial things. Why do you think Twitter is so heavily utilised by the media and football in general? Because it allows for 24/7 news and opinions and 99% of the time, it's stuff that the average football fan (and therefore, the media) cares about.

You might be right, and it just confirms what a fucking gutless, morally and professionally corrupt press and media we have in this country. To turn a blind eye to such massive abuse is a fucking scandal and it's all done to safeguard getting whatever scraps the hypocrite Guardiola throws their way.
 

Mascot88

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You might be right, and it just confirms what a fucking gutless, morally and professionally corrupt press and media we have in this country. To turn a blind eye to such massive abuse is a fucking scandal and it's all done to safeguard getting whatever scraps the hypocrite Guardiola throws their way.
It’s always been that way. Football exists at an awkward juxtaposition between news and entertainment. Most people don’t want their sports content too heavy. It’s how UEFA get away with their corruption.
 

epsomred

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Not wishing to discuss what is described as "paranoid nonsense", but there is a blindness to the obvious at work here.
I know Jaffod has been described, amongst others as a conspiracy theorist, and I am probably being placed in that camp, but there are factors at play that need to be recognised as the season progresses.
I have had your attempt at comedy already in the Leicester thread, so I am a bit dubious about any engagement with you on this, but yours is the post that requires addressing. Perhaps my previous attempt on this was awkward and deserved your attempt at humour, so hopefully this clarifies....If
Anyway.....
Its going to be a bit more difficult for Liverpool to win the league, as the amount of bias will ramp up the nearer we get to the finish line. The evidence of 12 points lost from poor decisions last season isnt enough to convince people that a bias exists, then fair enough. The obvious SKY/ Media demonisation of Salah as a diver isnt enough, fair enough again. The amount of decisions that go the way of City...Agueros third goal yesterday should gave been disallowed, not enough?
The amount of crucial decisions against Liverpool, two major ones vs Leicester, not enough?
Add them together and there has to be some recognition of the hill we have to overcome. I am not saying that the FA have met and decided Liverpool are not to win the league, or that refs are instructed against us.....but, factors such as the SKY and Murdoch agenda against Liverpool is pervasive and seeps into the consciousness of officials. Keep saying Harry Kane is a hero and he becomes a hero. Keep saying Salah is a diver and suddenley he gets nothing from referees. The Keita decision last week was bankrupt of any sense of fairness, and cannot be simply explained as one of these things. I am not suggesting corruption, but think there is an obvious mindset at work.
Dont give a penalty at Anfield becayse SKY/BT et al will decimate your decision. No decision is much better than a controversial one.
Murdochs power base in the media will always be in favour of whoever is up against Liverpool. And that mentality creeps into the rest of the game.
No conspiracy theory.
No victim mentality.
If we win the league, and I think we will, it wont be premised on any favouritism by the powers that be.
I think there are two problems with your argument;
A) there is no hard evidence of bias. We can all point to individual decisions but over the course of a 40 game season there are thousands of referring decisions some of which will go against us and some won’t. You are picking out less than 10 from a sample size of 1000s and claiming it’s evidence of a trend. No it’s not. If there was systematic bias you would expect to see a trend in something wholly in the referee’s discretion and measurable like penalties. The reality is since 2002 we have had 92 penalties in our favour compared to city who have had 93, man united 83, Chelsea 83 and arsenal 88. So no hard evidence of bias against us and arguably a slight argument that referees actually favour us and city.

B) How are referees influenced and by whom ? You argue that sky create a culture of bias that steps into the consciousness of officials but again where is the hard evidence ? Nobody doubts how the despicable Sun reports us but if Sky wanted to create an anti lfc bias why would they employ so many ex lfc players as pundits ? I don’t see Carrager, thomo, Robbie, souness etc as being anti lfc and they get a lot of airtime. Thomo and carragher are if anything famous for being too bias in our favour. So are you saying that refrrrs ignore the pro lfc bias of these two pundits but listen to the anti lfc bias of the others ? Can you point to quotes from the other pundits that systematically display bias or is it just your paranoid perception ? If Sky were systematically anti lfc they probably would employ more pundits from different clubs. Why don’t they ?

So on 2 basic empirical measures, penalties and % of pundits who are ex lfc players, I don’t think there is any real evidence of bias. I think incidents that seem to go against us get a lot of attention whereas we gloss over the ones that go in our favour. Every club does the same. Calling every decision that goes against us a conspiracy by Sky and the FA to stop us winning the league when we are top of the league and have the second highest number of penalties in premiet league history just adds fuel to the vile victim chants that we hear at every away game. Please stop giving them the ammunition.
 

epsomred

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It feels like I've read this argument a million times before. It can't just be me who is bored out of their mind with this discussion.
So am I but @Quicksand brought it up again so felt compelled to respond. I’d happily drop it.
 

Quicksand

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I think there are two problems with your argument;
A) there is no hard evidence of bias. We can all point to individual decisions but over the course of a 40 game season there are thousands of referring decisions some of which will go against us and some won’t. You are picking out less than 10 from a sample size of 1000s and claiming it’s evidence of a trend. No it’s not. If there was systematic bias you would expect to see a trend in something wholly in the referee’s discretion and measurable like penalties. The reality is since 2002 we have had 92 penalties in our favour compared to city who have had 93, man united 83, Chelsea 83 and arsenal 88. So no hard evidence of bias against us and arguably a slight argument that referees actually favour us and city.

B) How are referees influenced and by whom ? You argue that sky create a culture of bias that steps into the consciousness of officials but again where is the hard evidence ? Nobody doubts how the despicable Sun reports us but if Sky wanted to create an anti lfc bias why would they employ so many ex lfc players as pundits ? I don’t see Carrager, thomo, Robbie, souness etc as being anti lfc and they get a lot of airtime. Thomo and carragher are if anything famous for being too bias in our favour. So are you saying that refrrrs ignore the pro lfc bias of these two pundits but listen to the anti lfc bias of the others ? Can you point to quotes from the other pundits that systematically display bias or is it just your paranoid perception ? If Sky were systematically anti lfc they probably would employ more pundits from different clubs. Why don’t they ?

So on 2 basic empirical measures, penalties and % of pundits who are ex lfc players, I don’t think there is any real evidence of bias. I think incidents that seem to go against us get a lot of attention whereas we gloss over the ones that go in our favour. Every club does the same. Calling every decision that goes against us a conspiracy by Sky and the FA to stop us winning the league when we are top of the league and have the second highest number of penalties in premiet league history just adds fuel to the vile victim chants that we hear at every away game. Please stop giving them the ammunition.
Why is Salah described as a diver, when Kane isnt? Is that not biased?
Do you think the current narrative on Salah mitigates against Keita getting a penalty against Leicester? It definitley does.
Speaking of empirical evidence, the stats that point to an 18 point swing between Liverpool and Man Utd last season are conveniently forgotten in your summation.
And its nonsense to talk about penalties since 2002 in isolation of some facts. Most attacking teams get most penalties surely? What if a study pointed out the number of stone wall penalties not given? I would suggest Liverpool would top that league handily.
You can scratch away at my argument, I dont mind. At least you havent resorted to the same vein as in the Leicester thread. But the truth is that we all know this bias exists, we just wont be caught saying it. It doesnt fit with the sanitised version of reality that makes us feel comfortable.
 

Prolix

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And its nonsense to talk about penalties since 2002 in isolation of some facts. Most attacking teams get most penalties surely? What if a study pointed out the number of stone wall penalties not given? I would suggest Liverpool would top that league handily.
Show us the numbers, then.
 

Quicksand

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So am I but @Quicksand brought it up again so felt compelled to respond. I’d happily drop it.
You brought it up one page back. I think you will find that I responded to your comment. But thats just semantics. I am sure otger discussions bore the life out of me, but that doesnt meen the conversation should cease.
 

Prolix

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Seriously? Read my post. Please.
I did. You said: "What if a study pointed out the number of stone wall penalties not given?"

Provide us those numbers, a rationale, and a mechanism. Please.
 

Quicksand

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I did. You said: "What if a study pointed out the number of stone wall penalties not given?"

Provide us those numbers, a rationale, and a mechanism. Please.
I said "what if" and suggested Liverpool would be top of that league. How can I produce numbers to a supposition, I didnt claim to have hard facts, but based on the table from last season would theorise that Liverpool would be highest in a table of dubious decisions against. Surely that was in plain enough language without the need to ask that question?
 

Prolix

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I said "what if" and suggested Liverpool would be top of that league. How can I produce numbers to a supposition?
Counting?
I didnt claim to have hard facts, but based on the table from last season would theorise that Liverpool would be highest in a table of dubious decisions against.
I'm not sure I follow the connection there?
 

sms1986

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Sorry should have said based on the study from last season. Extend those empirical findings and my theory still stands.
I would like to see a similar study done for more than one season, I bet other teams are at the top for other seasons. The study also showed that other teams were severely disadvantaged due to poor decisions being made, Stoke for example who should have stayed up whilst Huddersfield should have been relegated. Does that mean there's a bias against Stoke?