Your thoughts on the season to come - Prediction time

Prolix

Long Time Nemesis™
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
2,434
Seriously? Read my post. Please.
I did. You said: "What if a study pointed out the number of stone wall penalties not given?"

Provide us those numbers, a rationale, and a mechanism. Please.
 

Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
202
I did. You said: "What if a study pointed out the number of stone wall penalties not given?"

Provide us those numbers, a rationale, and a mechanism. Please.
I said "what if" and suggested Liverpool would be top of that league. How can I produce numbers to a supposition, I didnt claim to have hard facts, but based on the table from last season would theorise that Liverpool would be highest in a table of dubious decisions against. Surely that was in plain enough language without the need to ask that question?
 

Prolix

Long Time Nemesis™
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
2,434
I said "what if" and suggested Liverpool would be top of that league. How can I produce numbers to a supposition?
Counting?
I didnt claim to have hard facts, but based on the table from last season would theorise that Liverpool would be highest in a table of dubious decisions against.
I'm not sure I follow the connection there?
 

sms1986

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
1,057
Sorry should have said based on the study from last season. Extend those empirical findings and my theory still stands.
I would like to see a similar study done for more than one season, I bet other teams are at the top for other seasons. The study also showed that other teams were severely disadvantaged due to poor decisions being made, Stoke for example who should have stayed up whilst Huddersfield should have been relegated. Does that mean there's a bias against Stoke?
 

epsomred

Give yourselves the chance to be heros
Joined
May 16, 2018
Messages
299
So let’s be what you are saying. The things that do get actually measured like penalties given don’t show any evidence of bias and are in fact “nonsense” as a source of data but the things that don’t get measured by anybody like “stonewall penalties not given” would clearly show that there is bias if only somebody measured it. My guess is that you are not a scientist. Anyway I suggest we agree to disagree. One if us is wrong but I don’t think we will ever agree on who that it is and I think we are hijacking the thread with a very boring conversation that will never end. Enjoy the rest of the season.
 

Red Submarine

Believer
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
46
I think the narrative that we're media darlings has no basis or evidence at all,it's utterly nonsensical,
I think a lot of it might be down to Phil McNulty! I must admit, I've read some of the things he's written and thought "How would I feel if someone was writing things like this about one of our rivals?", and the answer is 'I'd be gobsmacked'! If anybody wants to show an example of BBC bias he's a good place to start. Not that I care! If it winds up the other teams and their fans then that's ace! :well done:
 

Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
202
My guess is that you are not a scientist.

Anyway I suggest we agree to disagree.
You are correct. I am not a scientist, just a Liverpool supporter like you. My guess is that you are quite naive despite your confidence in your argument.
And because you are uncomfortable with someone else not sharing your view you call it boring.
That said, I concur, agree to disagree.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
19,197
I didnt claim to have hard facts, but based on the table from last season would theorise that Liverpool would be highest in a table of dubious decisions against.
I remember the table from last year and commented on it at the time. I think I’m right in saying it wasn’t just dubious decisions, but also luck. Which is a completely different kettle of fish.

I’m not going to say they all even out, or some nonsense like that. They clearly don’t. The Kop seems like a convenient way for some of the more shitty or insecure refs to prove how they are not swayed by a crowd.

I just think it’s human fallibility. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy. We need VAR.
 

Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
202
I just think it’s human fallibility. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy. We need VAR.
I dont think its neccessarily conspiracy either to be fair. But I do think referees are swayed by commentary. Salah spent most of last season getting lumps kicked out of him and never went down looking for anything. He was through against Bournemouth this season, was hacked and didnt go to ground. Now he is getting clever and taking the clatter and using it. But SKY/BT/BBC decide its diving, not Kane or Vardy, just Salah and the refs get their miopic thinking and run with it.
 

jaffod

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
2,025
It’s always been that way. Football exists at an awkward juxtaposition between news and entertainment. Most people don’t want their sports content too heavy. It’s how UEFA get away with their corruption.
That's all true but it still stinks to high heaven. Football is our national sport, tens of millions follow it, the PL is held up as the best and most competitive league in the world.
Along come City and make a complete fucking mockery of everything. Hoovering up titles and cups on the back of FFP abuse but nobody wants to say anything.
The thing is something on this scale doesn't have to be confined to the back pages. Look at Jimmy Carr and Gary Barlow, and any other person or company caught 'tax dodging' or cheating the system, it's front page news and a big hatchet job. What makes these corrupt cunts any different?
 

jaffod

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
2,025
I remember the table from last year and commented on it at the time. I think I’m right in saying it wasn’t just dubious decisions, but also luck. Which is a completely different kettle of fish.

I’m not going to say they all even out, or some nonsense like that. They clearly don’t. The Kop seems like a convenient way for some of the more shitty or insecure refs to prove how they are not swayed by a crowd.

I just think it’s human fallibility. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy. We need VAR.
The 12 points we dropped had nothing to do with luck. I think they took deflected goals into account and I'm pretty sure there were none that had any real effect on our results.
I don't agree with your point about the Kop. We had nailed on pens turned down away from home last season, notably at West Brom and surprise surprise, Old Trafford.
If it were true and referees are coming to Anfield with a mindset of not being 'influenced' by the Kop then that makes them fucking corrupt in my book.
 

sms1986

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
1,057
The thing is something on this scale doesn't have to be confined to the back pages. Look at Jimmy Carr and Gary Barlow, and any other person or company caught 'tax dodging' or cheating the system, it's front page news and a big hatchet job. What makes these corrupt cunts any different?
Your examples are British, though, so the media will want to make as much of a story out of it when it comes to famous people from this country. They know that John and Jane Smith will want to read about some famous British celebrity getting into trouble than some businessman from halfway around the world.
 

sms1986

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
1,057
If it were true and referees are coming to Anfield with a mindset of not being 'influenced' by the Kop then that makes them fucking corrupt in my book.
They probably do that for every major stand that is known for being intimidating for visitors, to be fair. That is, if they're telling the truth and not just, like Mascot says, trying to hide their shittiness or insecurity.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
19,197
The 12 points we dropped had nothing to do with luck.
No. You misunderstand.

The adjusted table that was doing the rounds last year was the league table adjusted for bad decisions and bad luck.

That’s what I was replying to.
 

costared

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
3,364
I am just a bit concerned. Our attack seems less effective this season and we do not have much cover in that department. An injury to Salah for example would be a disaster.. I feel we look like a team that could easily hit a couple of draws as most opponents have improved defensively . Two draws for us and City are top again. Hopefully I am wrong .

Sometimes I hate it when I am right but City are not yet top again and hopefully we will be able to get back ontrack. Great shame about Gomez though. Hopefully no more injuries.
 

Dane

NEXT!
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
5,430
Sometimes I hate it when I am right but City are not yet top again and hopefully we will be able to get back ontrack. Great shame about Gomez though. Hopefully no more injuries.
Dont be too hard on yourself, we're 3 points clear.
 

Danny_

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
1,466
If we are truly going to have a chance this season, we have to get back to focusing on one game at a time. All that matters is the next game. Too many of our players are talking to the media about our title chances. Just stfu and play is what someone needs to tell them (although I guess you can't do that to the primadonna players of the modern era).
 

redbj

hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Messages
17,181
You also have subliminal bias....

The press for years went easy on any manager rolling over and getting they’re bellies scratch at old Trafford, no real reports in my limited exposure about lack of ambition ‘ it’s a hard place to go’ ....’he’s probably got one eye on the six pointer after the old Trafford fixture’ , ‘you can’t pencil any points in there’ the list of defeatist cliches is endless, all meaning an acceptance of defeat at old Trafford won’t get you any pelters in the press......

I wonder how many points on average a season UTD got from teams who were just showing up with one eye on the next weeks fixture.

I’m not saying the points wouldn’t have been useful, but for Marty the mid table manager, better to get out of that fixture without being tranced becuase you know there’d be no recriminations.



That’s not a ‘conspiracy’ as such, but it’s a bias. No one could say it’s not.

Hence some residual criticism of fergies great usurpers from across the city....half the press want to claim they are the best team , ‘like, evah ‘ and beating them to the title is folly......
 

sms1986

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
1,057
That's a bias, but at the time United were the best team in England, going to Old Trafford for many teams was like going to Anfield in the 1970s or 1980s. The press might have played a part, but you can't underestimate how intimidating it would be for a mid-table team to go there. It's like with City nowadays, teams are too afraid to take them on and so they don't put up as much of a fight as they should.
 

sms1986

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
1,057
Everton leaving their 3 best players on the bench because they believed they couldnt win against City. There is a lot wrong with a league that alliws this shit to happen.
They did that because they play Watford on Saturday and they brought at least one of them on anyway.
 

FilthyBloke

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
983
Everton leaving their 3 best players on the bench because they believed they couldnt win against City. There is a lot wrong with a league that alliws this shit to happen.
I get ya. But I also see why they did it.
I remember many times under Rafa we would play a weakened team in the league before a European game. I’m sure I remember Warnock hating us for it.
 



LFC-Orlando

TIA First Team
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
7,729
The only thing that's "fishy" to me, this week, is the rescheduling of the Everton-Man Citeh game, to take place so much earlier than the final.
It's great that Citeh's in the Carabao final and the PL and the FA must respect that, and all that. But why couldn't this game be pushed out, to happen after the postponed final date?

They'll tell us it's because of the tight schedule,, etc etc.

But the opportunity for Citeh to go top now, is exactly what's wrong with this rescheduling date. Tired legs and injuries will likely be prevented, as Citeh's 1st team just need to beat Chelsea and then f*ck the FA Cup and rest up for Schalke.
 

sms1986

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
1,057
The only thing that's "fishy" to me, this week, is the rescheduling of the Everton-Man Citeh game, to take place so much earlier than the final.
It's great that Citeh's in the Carabao final and the PL and the FA must respect that, and all that. But why couldn't this game be pushed out, to happen after the postponed final date?

They'll tell us it's because of the tight schedule,, etc etc.

But the opportunity for Citeh to go top now, is exactly what's wrong with this rescheduling date. Tired legs and injuries will likely be prevented, as Citeh's 1st team just need to beat Chelsea and then f*ck the FA Cup and rest up for Schalke.
They were meant to play Everton on the 23rd as long as they weren't in the league cup final, but as they are, it was changed - https://www.mancity.com/news/first team/first team news/2018/december/four manchester city february fixture changes announced.

How would they have known, back in December, that being able to play Everton tonight would let them go back to first on goal difference? You also have to take into account Everton and when they can play at home.
 

dockers_strike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
575
Despite what people think about conspiracy theories, nothing has changed tonight. We still just need to be better than the teams we play to the end of the season starting with Bournemouth on Saturday. Injuries have hit us hard and I think Jurgen has to bite the bullet. I dont want to see Milner RB and Matip in the team on Saturday. I want to see the players run their bollocks off and I want the crowd to be chanting and singing.
 

Perth Red

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
312
The tragedy and heart ache of being second... on goal difference... with a game in hand! If only we hadn't let Clyne go, or Coutinho, or Suarez, or Carragher was ten years younger and could come in.... we would be away and clear! Pftt!
We were happy when we were two points behind city and ecstatic when four points ahead so let's try to be at least pleased rather than doom sodden or terrified! Still a third of the season to go and lots of points to play for. Each game is a chance to grab three points, nothing more. No game wins the league in the same way no game loses it, so keep supporting, keep cheering, keep enjoying! After all, it's supposed to be entertainment not torture!
 

Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
202
They did that because they play Watford on Saturday and they brought at least one of them on anyway.
Racehorse owners and jockeys receive fines for not trying. Football teams should as well. Teams are allowed to rest players, it is a squad game. But leaving 3 best players on the bench for a game against a much lower team is much more ethically correct than what Everton did tonight. They believed the media narrative that they would lose, so they lost. Newcastle didnt believe it, so they tried to win. Their lack of effort may have a consequence on the title.
I hope Watford hammer them on Saturday, they deserve it.