Your thoughts on the season to come - Prediction time

epsomred

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So let’s be what you are saying. The things that do get actually measured like penalties given don’t show any evidence of bias and are in fact “nonsense” as a source of data but the things that don’t get measured by anybody like “stonewall penalties not given” would clearly show that there is bias if only somebody measured it. My guess is that you are not a scientist. Anyway I suggest we agree to disagree. One if us is wrong but I don’t think we will ever agree on who that it is and I think we are hijacking the thread with a very boring conversation that will never end. Enjoy the rest of the season.
 

Red Submarine

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I think the narrative that we're media darlings has no basis or evidence at all,it's utterly nonsensical,
I think a lot of it might be down to Phil McNulty! I must admit, I've read some of the things he's written and thought "How would I feel if someone was writing things like this about one of our rivals?", and the answer is 'I'd be gobsmacked'! If anybody wants to show an example of BBC bias he's a good place to start. Not that I care! If it winds up the other teams and their fans then that's ace! :well done:
 

Quicksand

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My guess is that you are not a scientist.

Anyway I suggest we agree to disagree.
You are correct. I am not a scientist, just a Liverpool supporter like you. My guess is that you are quite naive despite your confidence in your argument.
And because you are uncomfortable with someone else not sharing your view you call it boring.
That said, I concur, agree to disagree.
 

Mascot88

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I didnt claim to have hard facts, but based on the table from last season would theorise that Liverpool would be highest in a table of dubious decisions against.
I remember the table from last year and commented on it at the time. I think I’m right in saying it wasn’t just dubious decisions, but also luck. Which is a completely different kettle of fish.

I’m not going to say they all even out, or some nonsense like that. They clearly don’t. The Kop seems like a convenient way for some of the more shitty or insecure refs to prove how they are not swayed by a crowd.

I just think it’s human fallibility. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy. We need VAR.
 

Quicksand

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I just think it’s human fallibility. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy. We need VAR.
I dont think its neccessarily conspiracy either to be fair. But I do think referees are swayed by commentary. Salah spent most of last season getting lumps kicked out of him and never went down looking for anything. He was through against Bournemouth this season, was hacked and didnt go to ground. Now he is getting clever and taking the clatter and using it. But SKY/BT/BBC decide its diving, not Kane or Vardy, just Salah and the refs get their miopic thinking and run with it.
 

jaffod

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It’s always been that way. Football exists at an awkward juxtaposition between news and entertainment. Most people don’t want their sports content too heavy. It’s how UEFA get away with their corruption.
That's all true but it still stinks to high heaven. Football is our national sport, tens of millions follow it, the PL is held up as the best and most competitive league in the world.
Along come City and make a complete fucking mockery of everything. Hoovering up titles and cups on the back of FFP abuse but nobody wants to say anything.
The thing is something on this scale doesn't have to be confined to the back pages. Look at Jimmy Carr and Gary Barlow, and any other person or company caught 'tax dodging' or cheating the system, it's front page news and a big hatchet job. What makes these corrupt cunts any different?
 

jaffod

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I remember the table from last year and commented on it at the time. I think I’m right in saying it wasn’t just dubious decisions, but also luck. Which is a completely different kettle of fish.

I’m not going to say they all even out, or some nonsense like that. They clearly don’t. The Kop seems like a convenient way for some of the more shitty or insecure refs to prove how they are not swayed by a crowd.

I just think it’s human fallibility. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy. We need VAR.
The 12 points we dropped had nothing to do with luck. I think they took deflected goals into account and I'm pretty sure there were none that had any real effect on our results.
I don't agree with your point about the Kop. We had nailed on pens turned down away from home last season, notably at West Brom and surprise surprise, Old Trafford.
If it were true and referees are coming to Anfield with a mindset of not being 'influenced' by the Kop then that makes them fucking corrupt in my book.
 

sms1986

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The thing is something on this scale doesn't have to be confined to the back pages. Look at Jimmy Carr and Gary Barlow, and any other person or company caught 'tax dodging' or cheating the system, it's front page news and a big hatchet job. What makes these corrupt cunts any different?
Your examples are British, though, so the media will want to make as much of a story out of it when it comes to famous people from this country. They know that John and Jane Smith will want to read about some famous British celebrity getting into trouble than some businessman from halfway around the world.
 

sms1986

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If it were true and referees are coming to Anfield with a mindset of not being 'influenced' by the Kop then that makes them fucking corrupt in my book.
They probably do that for every major stand that is known for being intimidating for visitors, to be fair. That is, if they're telling the truth and not just, like Mascot says, trying to hide their shittiness or insecurity.
 

Mascot88

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The 12 points we dropped had nothing to do with luck.
No. You misunderstand.

The adjusted table that was doing the rounds last year was the league table adjusted for bad decisions and bad luck.

That’s what I was replying to.
 

costared

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I am just a bit concerned. Our attack seems less effective this season and we do not have much cover in that department. An injury to Salah for example would be a disaster.. I feel we look like a team that could easily hit a couple of draws as most opponents have improved defensively . Two draws for us and City are top again. Hopefully I am wrong .

Sometimes I hate it when I am right but City are not yet top again and hopefully we will be able to get back ontrack. Great shame about Gomez though. Hopefully no more injuries.
 

Dane

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Sometimes I hate it when I am right but City are not yet top again and hopefully we will be able to get back ontrack. Great shame about Gomez though. Hopefully no more injuries.
Dont be too hard on yourself, we're 3 points clear.
 

Danny_

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If we are truly going to have a chance this season, we have to get back to focusing on one game at a time. All that matters is the next game. Too many of our players are talking to the media about our title chances. Just stfu and play is what someone needs to tell them (although I guess you can't do that to the primadonna players of the modern era).
 

redbj

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You also have subliminal bias....

The press for years went easy on any manager rolling over and getting they’re bellies scratch at old Trafford, no real reports in my limited exposure about lack of ambition ‘ it’s a hard place to go’ ....’he’s probably got one eye on the six pointer after the old Trafford fixture’ , ‘you can’t pencil any points in there’ the list of defeatist cliches is endless, all meaning an acceptance of defeat at old Trafford won’t get you any pelters in the press......

I wonder how many points on average a season UTD got from teams who were just showing up with one eye on the next weeks fixture.

I’m not saying the points wouldn’t have been useful, but for Marty the mid table manager, better to get out of that fixture without being tranced becuase you know there’d be no recriminations.



That’s not a ‘conspiracy’ as such, but it’s a bias. No one could say it’s not.

Hence some residual criticism of fergies great usurpers from across the city....half the press want to claim they are the best team , ‘like, evah ‘ and beating them to the title is folly......
 

sms1986

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That's a bias, but at the time United were the best team in England, going to Old Trafford for many teams was like going to Anfield in the 1970s or 1980s. The press might have played a part, but you can't underestimate how intimidating it would be for a mid-table team to go there. It's like with City nowadays, teams are too afraid to take them on and so they don't put up as much of a fight as they should.
 

sms1986

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Everton leaving their 3 best players on the bench because they believed they couldnt win against City. There is a lot wrong with a league that alliws this shit to happen.
They did that because they play Watford on Saturday and they brought at least one of them on anyway.
 

FilthyBloke

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Everton leaving their 3 best players on the bench because they believed they couldnt win against City. There is a lot wrong with a league that alliws this shit to happen.
I get ya. But I also see why they did it.
I remember many times under Rafa we would play a weakened team in the league before a European game. I’m sure I remember Warnock hating us for it.
 

LFC-Orlando

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The only thing that's "fishy" to me, this week, is the rescheduling of the Everton-Man Citeh game, to take place so much earlier than the final.
It's great that Citeh's in the Carabao final and the PL and the FA must respect that, and all that. But why couldn't this game be pushed out, to happen after the postponed final date?

They'll tell us it's because of the tight schedule,, etc etc.

But the opportunity for Citeh to go top now, is exactly what's wrong with this rescheduling date. Tired legs and injuries will likely be prevented, as Citeh's 1st team just need to beat Chelsea and then f*ck the FA Cup and rest up for Schalke.
 

sms1986

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The only thing that's "fishy" to me, this week, is the rescheduling of the Everton-Man Citeh game, to take place so much earlier than the final.
It's great that Citeh's in the Carabao final and the PL and the FA must respect that, and all that. But why couldn't this game be pushed out, to happen after the postponed final date?

They'll tell us it's because of the tight schedule,, etc etc.

But the opportunity for Citeh to go top now, is exactly what's wrong with this rescheduling date. Tired legs and injuries will likely be prevented, as Citeh's 1st team just need to beat Chelsea and then f*ck the FA Cup and rest up for Schalke.
They were meant to play Everton on the 23rd as long as they weren't in the league cup final, but as they are, it was changed - https://www.mancity.com/news/first ...ester city february fixture changes announced.

How would they have known, back in December, that being able to play Everton tonight would let them go back to first on goal difference? You also have to take into account Everton and when they can play at home.
 

dockers_strike

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Despite what people think about conspiracy theories, nothing has changed tonight. We still just need to be better than the teams we play to the end of the season starting with Bournemouth on Saturday. Injuries have hit us hard and I think Jurgen has to bite the bullet. I dont want to see Milner RB and Matip in the team on Saturday. I want to see the players run their bollocks off and I want the crowd to be chanting and singing.
 

Perth Red

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The tragedy and heart ache of being second... on goal difference... with a game in hand! If only we hadn't let Clyne go, or Coutinho, or Suarez, or Carragher was ten years younger and could come in.... we would be away and clear! Pftt!
We were happy when we were two points behind city and ecstatic when four points ahead so let's try to be at least pleased rather than doom sodden or terrified! Still a third of the season to go and lots of points to play for. Each game is a chance to grab three points, nothing more. No game wins the league in the same way no game loses it, so keep supporting, keep cheering, keep enjoying! After all, it's supposed to be entertainment not torture!
 

Quicksand

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They did that because they play Watford on Saturday and they brought at least one of them on anyway.
Racehorse owners and jockeys receive fines for not trying. Football teams should as well. Teams are allowed to rest players, it is a squad game. But leaving 3 best players on the bench for a game against a much lower team is much more ethically correct than what Everton did tonight. They believed the media narrative that they would lose, so they lost. Newcastle didnt believe it, so they tried to win. Their lack of effort may have a consequence on the title.
I hope Watford hammer them on Saturday, they deserve it.
 

sms1986

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Racehorse owners and jockeys receive fines for not trying. Football teams should as well. Teams are allowed to rest players, it is a squad game. But leaving 3 best players on the bench for a game against a much lower team is much more ethically correct than what Everton did tonight. They believed the media narrative that they would lose, so they lost. Newcastle didnt believe it, so they tried to win. Their lack of effort may have a consequence on the title.
I hope Watford hammer them on Saturday, they deserve it.
Like FIlthyBloke said, we've done it before ourselves and probably so has every other team. It's not really sporting, that's true.

I can't believe that Everton would actually fall for the "media narrative" that they would lose. Whilst they did start some of their best players on the bench, they did try to win the game and City were actually quite poor despite their advantages. They did eventually bring two of their best three on, which suggests that, at 1-0, they felt they had a chance of getting something out of the game.
 

Dane

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I'm not at the stage where I'm expecting other teams to help us out.
The league title is in our own hands with 2/3 of the season gone FFS.

As mentioned, we did it years ago to give us a better chance of winning another game a few days later.
Dont recall any of our supporters complaining about that.

For the record, I hope Watford hump them, but I did before last night too.
 

Iluvatar

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I'm not at the stage where I'm expecting other teams to help us out.
The league title is in our own hands with 2/3 of the season gone FFS.

As mentioned, we did it years ago to give us a better chance of winning another game a few days later.
Dont recall any of our supporters complaining about that.

For the record, I hope Watford hump them, but I did before last night too.
If we beat Bournmouth Saturday I expect us to go on a run to the title. My hope is the two game wobble is down to an illness which when gone we start playing at the level we have been previously.
 

Quicksand

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I'm not at the stage where I'm expecting other teams to help us out.
The league title is in our own hands with 2/3 of the season gone FFS.

As mentioned, we did it years ago to give us a better chance of winning another game a few days later.
Dont recall any of our supporters complaining about that.

For the record, I hope Watford hump them, but I did before last night too.
There is a difference, a genuine difference in my opinion.
But we are going to disagree on it.

Stronger sides will rotate to save players for more important matches, when they are playing lower stakes matches against weaker opposition. Its natural, and it most important it remains competitive.
Everton weakening their team against City is tantamount to surrender. Its them saying we cant do this, so we are not bothered.
That is the equivalent of not trying. The players may have made a token effort but as a club they derrogated their moral duty, that is to TRY.
Liverpool weakened their team against Wolves in the cup, and only hurt themselves. In a league game with a weakened team they will still TRY.
Moral cowardice on Evertons behalf. Not squad rotation.
 

Red_Jedi

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At this point of the season and where we are in the league - 2nd place on goal difference with a game in hand...., it's so refreshing to see major fan bases send out tweets/messages/articles about our fans getting really behind all the players and help sweep us through to the title.

This was also done when there was some legal stuff going on about Hillsborough...., and here we are now where each of the players need our support. Whether its at Anfield, or its via social media, phone ins or forums....

There is no value in slating individual players for mistakes, or blaming jurgen or owners for not strengthening in January... its done. We are where we are, and with a bit of luck, we will get over the line.

Lets all get behind this team... we are part of it.