Youth Transfers Thread

Zinedine Biscan

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Yes Joe Gelhardt was a target in the summer, and presumably will be in future, but the complications there would be (I imagine) his amount of game time available and that he would probably cost £5m-£10m given the amount of clubs chasing him.

Joe Hardy probably cost us next to nothing, as he was likely going to be released by Brentford in June anyway, and his wages will be really low.

Ultimately we just need someone to play as the CF so the lads who have the potential can work themselves around him. Similar to how Christie-Davies is used - clearly not a first team player but can help other players get better.

Knowing Michael Edwards he's probably signed this lad for £10k and will sell him to Bournemouth in the summer for £8m.
I'm starting to think the Bournemouth DOF is named Edward Michaels and wears a suspiciously false-looking moustache.

It's basically like me in FM when I get pissed off no-one is buying my players so I create an alt at City or Real Madrid and they mysteriously sign Kevin Stewart for £50m.
 

Nikola

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Yes Joe Gelhardt was a target in the summer, and presumably will be in future, but the complications there would be (I imagine) his amount of game time available and that he would probably cost £5m-£10m given the amount of clubs chasing him.

Joe Hardy probably cost us next to nothing, as he was likely going to be released by Brentford in June anyway, and his wages will be really low.

Ultimately we just need someone to play as the CF so the lads who have the potential can work themselves around him. Similar to how Christie-Davies is used - clearly not a first team player but can help other players get better.

Knowing Michael Edwards he's probably signed this lad for £10k and will sell him to Bournemouth in the summer for £8m.
Whisper it quietly but these left-field youth signings could become a steady source of income for academy. Obviously, Kevin Stewart is one I'm thinking of here but I see no reason why someone like Christie-Davis wouldn't fetch a few bob (especially once Bournemouth learn about him, haha). Maybe this Hardy kid will be a similar transfer, they certainly take good care of these kids when it comes to developing them and getting them the right loan moves.
 

Sweeting

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Whisper it quietly but these left-field youth signings could become a steady source of income for academy. Obviously, Kevin Stewart is one I'm thinking of here but I see no reason why someone like Christie-Davis wouldn't fetch a few bob (especially once Bournemouth learn about him, haha). Maybe this Hardy kid will be a similar transfer, they certainly take good care of these kids when it comes to developing them and getting them the right loan moves.
Yes I agree, there is a market for these players that a lot of clubs are overlooking but Liverpool have been active in pursuing players released by others.

When someone gets released by Tottenham (for example) they may be 20 years old with 0 professional experience. Many FL clubs are not going to risk the salary they would expect coming from that background.

We can step in, pay them the modest wages (but a lot for a L1/L2 club) they want and see if we can provide them a platform to showcase their skills (we also often change their main position, using others skills their parent clubs missed). If it doesn't work and we have to move them on for no fee then the risk was mitigated by the fact they cost almost nothing to bring in the first place. There is an element of playing the system to it, or gambling, laying enough stock down to hope one or two come through and pay for all the other gambles + more.

Off the top of my head I can remember
  1. Rafa Camacho: Released by Man City, position change to RB, sold for £5m
  2. Juanma: Released by Barcelona, position change to CB, released by Liverpool
  3. Nat Phillips: Released by Bolton, position change to CB, started for first team yesterday
  4. Isaac Christie-Davies: Released by Chelsea, position change to CM, played for first team vs Aston Villa
  5. Kai McKenzie-Lyle: Signed for nominal fee from Barnet, has started at U23 level
  6. Mich'el Parker: Released by Arsenal, released by Liverpool
  7. Anderson Arroyo: Signed for nominal fee from Fortaleza, on loan in Hungary
  8. Sam Hart: Released by Man Utd, position change to LB, sold to Blackburn for undisclosed fee

The list goes on but of those eight I've immediately thought of we can already see ~£5m from the sale of Hart and Camacho, first team football from Phillips and Christie-Davies and a few that haven't worked out (Parker, Juanma). Potentially we could see some money come in for ICD and Phillips this summer. Potentially looking at £8m-£10m on a bunch of players who were either barely professional or were released by other clubs.

Edit: Forgot to mention Kevin Stewart of course, signed for free and sold to Hull as part of the deal to sign the best LB in the world.
 
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Nikola

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And I completely forgot about Camacho! Not sure why he always escapes me, it's as if my mind is trying to erase him from any Liverpool connotation. He's actually a better example of that policy than Stewart because I think he should have become a first team squad player at Liverpool at worst (I love Neco but Camacho has significant physical advantage over him), unlike Stewart. He didn't and Liverpool got a fair deal (there's also a sell-on clause included if I'm not mistaken).

Meanwhile, Liverpool want to extend Chirivella's deal but accept that he'll probably want to move on, a bit like Lallana's situation. If Edwards and Klopp convince him to sign, they should run for UN presidency.
 

Zoran

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A new deal for Chirivella, one or two loans (with more luck than is his last, failed one) and we get a decent fee. He's a neat player in the receiving/passing stuff, you can immediately see that. Wish him a nice career, whatever happens now.

:)
 

Sweeting

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A new deal for Chirivella, one or two loans (with more luck than is his last, failed one) and we get a decent fee. He's a neat player in the receiving/passing stuff, you can immediately see that. Wish him a nice career, whatever happens now.

:)
He already told the club he wants to leave, he wanted to go this month as well, so I can only imagine that this is an attempt at protecting the asset after a very good performance against what is apparently PL standard opposition.

I expect him to reject it and move on but if he signs we could get a few million for him, which will be nice.
 

Zoran

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Yeah, that is also a possibility. He just needs to go somewhere and play, enjoy football again. If there's a side at lower level in whichever country that at least leans towards attacking football, he should be a nice option.
 

redfanman

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He already told the club he wants to leave, he wanted to go this month as well, so I can only imagine that this is an attempt at protecting the asset after a very good performance against what is apparently PL standard opposition.

I expect him to reject it and move on but if he signs we could get a few million for him, which will be nice.
Dont we get something for him even if he doesnt sign? I thought the offer of a new contract was enough to protect an asset?

I agree he is likely to reject it. I am sure we would have already allowed him to move on if there had been a reasonable offer for him.
 

Sweeting

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Dont we get something for him even if he doesnt sign? I thought the offer of a new contract was enough to protect an asset?

I agree he is likely to reject it. I am sure we would have already allowed him to move on if there had been a reasonable offer for him.
Only if he moves inside of England I think, if he moves abroad - back to Spain for example - I don't think they have to pay us anything.
 

Joe Gomez x

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Probably just a big physical lad for under age level maybe like Nat Phillips, not really for first team but a cheap lad to boost up an academy side against kids
 

The Elusive 19th

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While monetary benefits are there, we are also trying our best to improve these players. We are actually providing a platform for many of the rejected kids. Else who knows where these kids will end up. It's a noble cause.

Looking from a different angle, these kids get thrown out at 18-20 years of age. Meaning the clubs demand the kids to make it by 18-20. So the clubs start expecting things from the kids from 16 onwards. It's too early in the life of many many kids. Even the body won't be fully developed by that age.

If the League Cup and FA Cup are made to be purely U23, more clubs would retain more of these kids till 23, allowing them to develop more and the standard of football in UK will gradually improve. It will benefit everyone.
 

Sweeting

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I think it is clear that Klopp/Ingelthorpe etc believe that we make decisions on players far too early.

Chirivella for example, now at 22 looks like a guy who can perform at Premier League level, whilst at 20 he probably would have had to go into the lower leagues in Spain or a lesser team in the Netherlands.
 

Richard88

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While monetary benefits are there, we are also trying our best to improve these players. We are actually providing a platform for many of the rejected kids. Else who knows where these kids will end up. It's a noble cause.

Looking from a different angle, these kids get thrown out at 18-20 years of age. Meaning the clubs demand the kids to make it by 18-20. So the clubs start expecting things from the kids from 16 onwards. It's too early in the life of many many kids. Even the body won't be fully developed by that age.

If the League Cup and FA Cup are made to be purely U23, more clubs would retain more of these kids till 23, allowing them to develop more and the standard of football in UK will gradually improve. It will benefit everyone.
If they made cups purely u23 then those young players would never have an opportunity to play against senior professionals, in which case they might as well just stick to playing u23/reserve level football. Many lower league sides would probably even struggle to field decent teams as well if forced to play only youth players so the quality of football overall would fall considerably.
 

Neukolln

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Swansea is a great move for young Brewster. It’s an excellent fit. The Swans has a really positive start to their year but have been slowly fading. This makes sense for both the club and player. He will get plenty of first team minutes with a huge opportunity to help them get back to PL.
 

Nikola

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Swansea is a great move for young Brewster. It’s an excellent fit. The Swans has a really positive start to their year but have been slowly fading. This makes sense for both the club and player. He will get plenty of first team minutes with a huge opportunity to help them get back to PL.
I really hope so. I wouldn't be surprised if he spent the next season on loan as well. He seems unrealistically sensible for a young player, one who values playing time more than money, at least at this point. He comes across as forward-thinking and mature, that's what sets him apart from other football players and I'm desperate for him to make it at Liverpool.
 

Richard88

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Swansea is a great move for young Brewster. It’s an excellent fit. The Swans has a really positive start to their year but have been slowly fading. This makes sense for both the club and player. He will get plenty of first team minutes with a huge opportunity to help them get back to PL.
I like the approach from our club with the loans. No loan fee in this case, but financial penalties if the player doesn't feature in enough games. Prioritising playing time for youngsters on loan - rather than financial gain, is another aspect of what makes Liverpool a top destination for young players. They see that the club tries hard to find suitable loans for them in order to get gametime, where the loaning club has the incentive to play them a lot. It's really shrewd management.
 

The Elusive 19th

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redfanman

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Why. I am scrapping my head a bit here.
Recalling Nat Phillips, Hoever not getting enough time and now recalling Awoniyi. There is surely something happening alright. Probably our guys introduced a mid season review newly?
He isnt playing at Mainz, so the club want him to go elsewhere.

Phillips appears to have been opportunism - we wanted to use him in the FA Cup and he wasnt playing in Germany for a month.
 

Sweeting

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Oh. I thought we was getting game time.
Now it makes sense.
Only managed one start and 146 minutes of football since joining them. In fairness to him I think he is a better player than that but they have focused on using experienced players like Szalai and Quaison. Their star man is Mateta and he is just returning from injury also so no realistic prospect of him getting into the team.

The article states that a lot of French and Spanish clubs, as was as Olympiakos and Besiktas, are after him but he wants to stay in Germany if possible (he probably speaks the language now having spent a year there for FSV Frankfurt and spending two years in Belgium).
 

redbj

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Whisper it quietly but these left-field youth signings could become a steady source of income for academy. Obviously, Kevin Stewart is one I'm thinking of here but I see no reason why someone like Christie-Davis wouldn't fetch a few bob (especially once Bournemouth learn about him, haha). Maybe this Hardy kid will be a similar transfer, they certainly take good care of these kids when it comes to developing them and getting them the right loan moves.
if you look at the individual players, we do often turn a profit. but you cant do that, you need to look at the cost of the academy compared to sales, and id wager we would very much struggle to break even.

i still think academies are there to service the clubs playing squad, not the clubs bottom line, infact, if anything, the way its going, id imagine theres a very real possibility that LESS money is pumped into academies at clubs like LFC as i think the next 'moral' wave to sweep football will be the condition it leaves these kids in if they fail to make the grade at places like LFC and other european powerhouses.

yes, they will most likely go on to make a career out of the game elsewhere, i'm not talking solely about their ability to make money post LFC though.

id imagine, like anything, as corporate governance about this issue starts to take hold, and clubs are held accountable for players they reject, alot of this stuff will be getting farmed out to areas less scrutinsed....expect waves of eastern europeans and africans benefitting from private 'academies' where the working conditions and pre contracts might not be at the same standards.


huh, ive just described a scene from gladiator where the fighters are auctioned off to gladiatorial mercenaries......
 

Zinedine Biscan

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if you look at the individual players, we do often turn a profit. but you cant do that, you need to look at the cost of the academy compared to sales, and id wager we would very much struggle to break even.

i still think academies are there to service the clubs playing squad, not the clubs bottom line, infact, if anything, the way its going, id imagine theres a very real possibility that LESS money is pumped into academies at clubs like LFC as i think the next 'moral' wave to sweep football will be the condition it leaves these kids in if they fail to make the grade at places like LFC and other european powerhouses.
It can be both, essentially being self-sustaining while providing us with the occasional Trent, Gerrard, Fowler, Owen, Carra etc and saving the club tens of millions of pounds each time in the process.
 

redbj

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Sterling must have been a huge cash win?
Didn’t we buy him at 14 or 15?

Regardless, sterling probably defeats my point though, that’s true.

I was more referring to your academy type players like bobby Duncan and Jordan Ibe, brad Smith etc.

Yes, the profit on those players looks good, until you factor in how much it actually costs to run and service the academy, scouting etc etc
 

Nikola

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if you look at the individual players, we do often turn a profit. but you cant do that, you need to look at the cost of the academy compared to sales, and id wager we would very much struggle to break even.

i still think academies are there to service the clubs playing squad, not the clubs bottom line, infact, if anything, the way its going, id imagine theres a very real possibility that LESS money is pumped into academies at clubs like LFC as i think the next 'moral' wave to sweep football will be the condition it leaves these kids in if they fail to make the grade at places like LFC and other european powerhouses.

yes, they will most likely go on to make a career out of the game elsewhere, i'm not talking solely about their ability to make money post LFC though.

id imagine, like anything, as corporate governance about this issue starts to take hold, and clubs are held accountable for players they reject, alot of this stuff will be getting farmed out to areas less scrutinsed....expect waves of eastern europeans and africans benefitting from private 'academies' where the working conditions and pre contracts might not be at the same standards.


huh, ive just described a scene from gladiator where the fighters are auctioned off to gladiatorial mercenaries......
I think the academy staff are already doing their bit to maximise the chance that these kids have a nice future if their football careers don't work out. I don't think Liverpool academy in particular have ever invested so much in giving them proper education, which is really commendable, whether these kids make it or not. At the very minimum, you don't want to hear your footballing hero barely able to string two sentences together or write a social media post in incorrect grammar.

As for the academies servicing their respecting clubs, well, that's their primary role and I don't really look past it. While I think that Man United's academy reigns supreme in England in terms of churning out first team players in terms of both quality and quantity, Liverpool's academy now at least does the job of turning in some significant cash. In my opinion, it's a notable progress compared to, say, ten years ago. I really don't have a clue about numbers but as your average Joe, just looking at the likes of Sterling, Ibe, Smith, Stewart, Camacho, I think the academy has done a lot of good work in terms of finances.

Now, the next step is getting some more Trents into the first team, hopefully starting with Jones, Hoever and Elliott - a combo of kids who played through every Liverpool age group and those who were the result of a meticulous recruitment policy. Like I said, that's the real benchmark of progress, in my opinion, though it depends on Klopp (and other first team managers) as much as it depends on the academy.
 

redfanman

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I'm curious now as to how much the acadamy costs to run each season. Does anyone know if the annual accounts provides a figure for that?

My gut instinct is that we are at a stage where sales from the acadamy are covering the running costs of the academy.

Since Klopp came in, we've raised about £97m from sales of academy players. https://www.lfchistory.net/Transfers/ByManager/28/0

That doesnt include loan fees we may have picked up during that period either.
 

redbj

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I think the academy staff are already doing their bit to maximise the chance that these kids have a nice future if their football careers don't work out. I don't think Liverpool academy in particular have ever invested so much in giving them proper education, which is really commendable, whether these kids make it or not. At the very minimum, you don't want to hear your footballing hero barely able to string two sentences together or write a social media post in incorrect grammar.

As for the academies servicing their respecting clubs, well, that's their primary role and I don't really look past it. While I think that Man United's academy reigns supreme in England in terms of churning out first team players in terms of both quality and quantity, Liverpool's academy now at least does the job of turning in some significant cash. In my opinion, it's a notable progress compared to, say, ten years ago. I really don't have a clue about numbers but as your average Joe, just looking at the likes of Sterling, Ibe, Smith, Stewart, Camacho, I think the academy has done a lot of good work in terms of finances.

Now, the next step is getting some more Trents into the first team, hopefully starting with Jones, Hoever and Elliott - a combo of kids who played through every Liverpool age group and those who were the result of a meticulous recruitment policy. Like I said, that's the real benchmark of progress, in my opinion, though it depends on Klopp (and other first team managers) as much as it depends on the academy.
Sterling And Stewart im sure you can’t say they are products of our academy....but I digress, doesn’t change your overall point.
 

redfanman

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Sterling And Stewart im sure you can’t say they are products of our academy....but I digress, doesn’t change your overall point.
I would disagree if we are talking about costs and revenues of the academy as they will have led to it incurring costs and generating revenues when on loan/sold, at least for Sterling. If the player is scouted and plays for our academy sides then i think it is fair to describe them as an academy product, particularly if he is there for several seasons.